Poll

Americans have all heard it. What do you think of it?

If you don't vote, you have NO RIGHT to complain.
0 (0%)
If you don't vote, you STILL HAVE A RIGHT to complain.
15 (100%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Author Topic: No Vote = No Right to Complain?  (Read 7951 times)

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Abrom

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Re: No Vote = No Right to Complain?
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2015, 07:24:13 PM »
I don't see the problem in this.  IF YOU VOTE, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN.

If these people you voted into office produce results you'd complain about, you partly caused that problem since you voted them in the first place.  In such case, those who abstained on the other hand could only be the ones to complain.

That's still bs. e.g. if you vote fore someone and they don't behave like they promised, you should complain.
Actually you should complain so much that they don't see the end of it.
or e.g. if you voted for the "lesser evil" you still can complain about how it's still not good (even if the other party would be even worse)

In short all this "you did vote or did not vote for x...you have no right to complain" is just a stupid try to silence people about their opnions.


Really, I think it's a suitable response just to piss off people that think they deserve more than others because they're complying with the system. Of course, I really feel if you voted for someone, and they screw up, you still have a right to complain, because they more-or-less betrayed you.

I see a poll at the beginning of this page.
I'm not going to vote, because I like neither option.
What option would you prefer there to be? Or is this just a joke about not voting?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 07:42:41 PM by Abrom »
River: *Drops hacky sack*
River: "Can you throw this is as far as where Anya's at?"
John: "I can try."
John: "(Now I'll amaze her with my feat of strength.)"
John: *Throws hacky sack into ocean*
River: *Runs to cliff edge*
John: "River! Stop looking at my awesome throw and get away from that ledge!"
River: *Backs into John and silently sits down*
John: "(...Nailed it.)"

GingerCorslette

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Re: No Vote = No Right to Complain?
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2015, 11:47:35 PM »
I don't see the problem in this.  IF YOU VOTE, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN.

If these people you voted into office produce results you'd complain about, you partly caused that problem since you voted them in the first place.  In such case, those who abstained on the other hand could only be the ones to complain.

That's still bs. e.g. if you vote fore someone and they don't behave like they promised, you should complain.

Uh, I was referring to the right to complain.  :)  Invoking the right itself is a different matter.  If I vote for Trump and he f's everything up, I'll sound a little more stupid when I whine about it than someone who also complains but voted against him.

You must also be a fan of some of George Carlin's work :) Here's a link to that exact rant, but be warned, there is foul language. 2 minutes in is what we're really referring to - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk

Yeah I stole that from him :) but it basically is what I wanted to say.

Abrom

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Re: No Vote = No Right to Complain?
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2015, 11:51:52 AM »
Alright, so we don't have any one-sided boisterous types here, but we MIGHT have people here that vote for one political party only. And, even if you don't, you probably know someone that does. I would like to share some views with you. The first entry is mine. Now, even if you don't agree with me, the second entry is from my pastor brother, and I think it's a view that everyone can agree with.

Quote
"If not voting makes you feel better fine but how is that going to changes any thing. Name one thing in this country that has changed by the act of not voting" Short answer - nothing. Long answer - That's the tricky thing. Politicians don't need to cater to us, they just need to cater to the people that keep casting their votes for the same political party over and over. They'll always ignore us, because the system works for them just fine. I could go through all the time and effort to dig up as much info on independents and try to pick the best out of them, but that doesn't change the fact that I still believe they'll be corrupted by the system instead of changing it. So, a way to resolve this, and another reason to speak my mind, would be if I can get the loudest party-based voters I know to realize our reasons, and then you guys could spread the word of what your political party should be trying to impress you (and me) with. That way, sleazy politicians might be tricked into doing the right thing, like, for starters, doing away with the electoral college. If they're tricked into changing enough, maybe the system might look good enough that a non-voter could take interest in it. If the political system actually cares about my vote, then they need to show it. Right now, it's set in its ways because there's enough people that are going to vote for a political party just for the sake of voting. So, like you said (Insert Name), the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and you think voting is an important thing for all Americans to do. If you want me to not only vote for your candidate, but just vote in general, then perhaps you could do a little squeaking for the 50% of us that don't vote?
Quote
I said I vote, but that doesn't mean I think there is only one logic. In fact, that's one of the things I hate about the political sphere: the idea that "my reasoning" is the right one and everyone else is either stupid or corrupt. There are very sincere, very intelligent people who disagree entirely with me. It's why I entered the conversation. There needs to be real discussion, not the debates that are always entered into. There needs to be listening, and, with that, is the concept that "I could be wrong." That's why I don't think debates solve anything (which, I know, is ironic right now), as it usually solidifies the person into the side they started on. The way we enter into discussions is never to understand the other person; it's to tell them how wrong they are. I strongly believe the political system needs to change, but America needs to change first. We have to start listening to each other. This means not simply waiting for our chance to respond and fix them, but actually considering how what they say may change us. This, I think, is much more true to the founding fathers than simply voting. This is a government by the people and for the people. It's when people are actually participating as people. This is a true engagement of government if people truly engage one another. The thing changed by not voting: politicians and media asking, "Why aren't the young people being engaged?" It's because people aren't engaged anymore. That must change. You may ask why I advocate for not voting. It's because I already vote, but I'm not simply content with believing I'm the one who is right and everyone else is wrong. This doesn't only apply only to politics. This applies to EVERYTHING.
River: *Drops hacky sack*
River: "Can you throw this is as far as where Anya's at?"
John: "I can try."
John: "(Now I'll amaze her with my feat of strength.)"
John: *Throws hacky sack into ocean*
River: *Runs to cliff edge*
John: "River! Stop looking at my awesome throw and get away from that ledge!"
River: *Backs into John and silently sits down*
John: "(...Nailed it.)"

Sun

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Re: No Vote = No Right to Complain?
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2015, 12:06:56 PM »
Wonderful thought by your brother ... but it'd be easier to change the US election system (since it's about how something is organized) than to change every person. Party-pooping, I know.

Legacyblade

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Re: No Vote = No Right to Complain?
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2015, 12:11:34 PM »
It'd also be a lot easier just to move somewhere awesome. Like Japan. So I guess if you don't vote, you're moving to Japan!

Thunderbird

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Re: No Vote = No Right to Complain?
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2015, 12:11:42 PM »
Wonderful thought by your brother ... but it'd be easier to change the US election system (since it's about how something is organized) than to change every person. Party-pooping, I know.

Problem is...who is in charge of changing it?
Oh yeah...exactly the ones that like it the way it is at the moment.
Even if you are nothing more than a drop in a bucket...
Every drop leaves ripples.

Sun

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Re: No Vote = No Right to Complain?
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2015, 12:45:05 PM »
Problem is...who is in charge of changing it?
Oh yeah...exactly the ones that like it the way it is at the moment.
That's why people campaign - it worked for things like women's suffrage or the end of racial segregation.

Abrom

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Re: No Vote = No Right to Complain?
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2015, 01:24:20 PM »
Problem is...who is in charge of changing it?
Oh yeah...exactly the ones that like it the way it is at the moment.
That's why people campaign - it worked for things like women's suffrage or the end of racial segregation.
It's a catch-22. How can you change the voting system, when no political party wants to change it (and I mean change it for the better, because there are some that want to make it even more exclusive, by making it mandatory to provide lawful identification in order to vote, despite that there's been almost no problems with that part of it)? It's obviously a problem when 50% of the population doesn't vote, yet the only political talk of changing it is about throwing up another obstacle. And even if a candidate does come along that wants to change it, then you have to use the same system you despise to vote for him. Not to mention that it's very likely that you might not agree with his other policies and political backing, or you might not want to see him corrupted by the system. The system's evolved to a point that I see no way for it to really get better, only slowly decline until it finally breaks down and we start anew.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 06:17:21 PM by Abrom »
River: *Drops hacky sack*
River: "Can you throw this is as far as where Anya's at?"
John: "I can try."
John: "(Now I'll amaze her with my feat of strength.)"
John: *Throws hacky sack into ocean*
River: *Runs to cliff edge*
John: "River! Stop looking at my awesome throw and get away from that ledge!"
River: *Backs into John and silently sits down*
John: "(...Nailed it.)"

Mela

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Re: No Vote = No Right to Complain?
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2015, 02:17:55 PM »
Of course you still have the right to complain especially if you do not have any decent options and voting would not change anything. A few years ago my country's Federal Court of Justice decided that politicians are not obligated to keep their promises meaning they can lie through their teeth and then do as their please, so how would voting make sense in this case when you know basically any canidate can spread false promises without any consequences?