Author Topic: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)  (Read 41633 times)

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Elke

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Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
« Reply #75 on: December 18, 2014, 09:56:57 PM »
Hey! It's been awhile! Just wanted to check up and ask if you got around to making the second ending? Hope everythings doing well
-Elke-

Abrom

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Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
« Reply #76 on: December 20, 2014, 01:58:48 PM »
Heh, I gotta ask, did you watch Puella Magi Madoka Magica before coming up with this story? Seems like Sin Unsullied could have drawn a lot of inspiration from it. Anyway, here's some typos I found throughout the game.

Spoiler: show
When Fayte is telling the story about the Nightmares and whatnot.
Fayte: A unearthly sound like glass grinding against metal split the air.
Should be 'An', not 'A'

In the thought world, after Ember and Fayte are interrupted by a familiar voice.
???: I already yold you, in bed!
I imagine that it's supposed to be 'told'...also, I wasn't paying attention too much at the time - Lol, who was talking about being in bed here? Seems like an Ember line, since she's so over-sexualized.

When you spend your first time with Ember, after Fayte runs off.
Ember: But me and you need to have a chat, once you're cooled down a little.
It still works as is, but I think it's supposed to be 'you've', instead of 'you're'

Lee spending time with Ember, talking about Fayte. (I guess I should have been more clear about this when I wrote it down. I didn't realize that all the time spent with Ember would consist of conversations of Fayte. I think this is still in the first time spent with her.)
Lee: The why the hell did she become one of you!?
Obviously, the first 'The' should be 'Then'

When Fayte first mentions Aiden to Lee.
Fayte: And from what I gather, he's been at it for over an hundred years.
'an' should be 'a' I believe


Now, what I thought about the game...
Spoiler: show
I didn't actually finish the game :/ I died on Edmund and I didn't feel like leveling up or trying at it again. It's not because the combat is bad; I mean, as far as trying to have a real-time battle goes, this is pretty damn good for RPGMaker. But, that's the thing - it's RPGMaker, there isn't going to be a real-time battle system that's going to make me want to play it compared to other games. Now, as far the story goes...the similarities to Puella Magi Madoka Magica are uncanny. Not saying that's a bad thing. As far as I know, this might have a lot more story to it than I was able to witness in my playthrough, but I was frustrated with the way the story was presented to me. It just takes so long to learn what I want to learn about, it's based off of multiple choice, and it's broken into such small increments...I don't know, maybe I'm just not the target audience for this game. I also had a hard time feeling for the characters. Lee's an asshole, Fayte's a slut (more or less), Aiden's also an asshole (as we learn shortly before you find Edmund), and Ember is over-sexualized. It didn't help that everybody kept throwing the blame around to people in ways that just didn't make sense. I'm sorry for the negative feedback, but don't take it harshly; it's pretty hard to please me :/ I just thought that it would be better for me to be honest, than to blow smoke up your ass. But, hey, if you ever decide to tell this story in a way that isn't a multiple choice, visual novel, I'd sure like to take a look at it :)

River: *Drops hacky sack*
River: "Can you throw this is as far as where Anya's at?"
John: "I can try."
John: "(Now I'll amaze her with my feat of strength.)"
John: *Throws hacky sack into ocean*
River: *Runs to cliff edge*
John: "River! Stop looking at my awesome throw and get away from that ledge!"
River: *Backs into John and silently sits down*
John: "(...Nailed it.)"

Legacyblade

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Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
« Reply #77 on: December 21, 2014, 08:22:21 PM »
@Elke, naw. I've been more focused on writing novels lately. I'm planning on remaking the game from scratch in unity sometime in the next couple years though :)

@Abrom, yeah. I'm a huge Madoka Magica fan. I even put a little madoka cameo in the game (one of the stained glass windows is a depiction of madoka).

I'm sorry that the game wasn't to your liking. I realize that a lot of the points you raise are pretty valid, especially the combat. I really don't like how the combat turned out, which is the main reason I'm planning on remaking this in unity. RPG Maker is running on a really OLD engine, and doesn't provide the degree of control needed for real time battling to feel particularly fullfilling. Plus the 1 minute button mashing fest isn't particularly interesting :P

I agree with you that Lee's a jerk, but I don't quite understand why you think Fayte's a slut o.o I'm super curious, what makes you think that? I'm remaking the game, so I'd really like to understand what things she did made you feel that way so I can be aware of them when touching up the story.

The visual novel elements will stay, so I don't know if it'll ever be to your liking. But I am planning on making the combat better and giving you more time to get to know the world and the characters before it ends.

Abrom

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Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
« Reply #78 on: December 22, 2014, 11:02:19 AM »
I agree with you that Lee's a jerk, but I don't quite understand why you think Fayte's a slut o.o I'm super curious, what makes you think that? I'm remaking the game, so I'd really like to understand what things she did made you feel that way so I can be aware of them when touching up the story.
Alright, well...
Spoiler: show
In the flashback of Fayte and Lee spending time together after she told her story about the Nightmares, she was about to kiss Lee, but then Aiden comes in and she shows an attraction to him. Now, I get that this was supposed to be interpreted as this, since Lee is supposed to believe that she became a Reaper to be with Aiden...even though that's not really her reason, and she actually did it because she wanted to become a Reaper to save Lee...right? If I did get this right, maybe it could be reworded to make it more clear, during the flashback, that she was more interested in Aiden's abilities, than Aiden himself.
Next, when Lee is arguing with his father, his father talks about how Fayte is a barmaid, and the context of what he was saying seemed to imply that she was a loose woman. If this is what his father was trying to get at, then maybe Lee could respond about how pure of a woman she really is; maybe he could mention that she's still a virgin...if she even is. But, yeah, this part seemed to suggest that Fayte got around.
Lastly, it turns out that Fayte ends up dating the horniest woman alive, Ember. And the thing is...I don't know if I missed this, but how much time spanned in between when Fayte became a Reaper/Lee learned that she became a Reaper, and to the point that Lee met up with Fayte again in the thought world? Because it didn't seem it could have been all that long of a time, since Lee was still sulking about it and everyone was trying to give him the usual 'just got dumped' cheer-up talks. I mean, it seemed to me that we might be looking at a time frame of...MAYBE months. So, my point is, it didn't seem like all that much time went by, and then it turns out that in that short time, Fayte starts dating a chick. And the fact that it's a chick kinda adds to the 'Fayte being a slut' theory, since she's apparently willing to be in a sensual relationship with ANYONE.


Quote
The visual novel elements will stay, so I don't know if it'll ever be to your liking. But I am planning on making the combat better and giving you more time to get to know the world and the characters before it ends.
Damn. Yeah, I'm not into visual novels. And...if I'm not mistaken, in Sin Unsullied, when you try to advance your relationship with someone, the event you share with that person is also based on the time of day, isn't it? If that is how it works, kinda makes it more frustrating for me, since I'd like to get as much out of the story as I can. I guess people that enjoy visual novels are supposed to be happy with what they're given based off their options, but I'm not like that; I want the whole thing.

Oh, also...
Spoiler: show
Does it ever get explained how Aiden was able to lure a Nightmare to Lee, and how Fayte was the only one that knew about the Nightmare's presence? Because it seemed to me that when Nightmares make their way into the real world, they can be seen, right? I mean, that one woman that was getting attacked could see it.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 05:37:58 PM by Abrom »
River: *Drops hacky sack*
River: "Can you throw this is as far as where Anya's at?"
John: "I can try."
John: "(Now I'll amaze her with my feat of strength.)"
John: *Throws hacky sack into ocean*
River: *Runs to cliff edge*
John: "River! Stop looking at my awesome throw and get away from that ledge!"
River: *Backs into John and silently sits down*
John: "(...Nailed it.)"

Elke

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Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
« Reply #79 on: December 22, 2014, 04:38:38 PM »
@Elke, naw. I've been more focused on writing novels lately. I'm planning on remaking the game from scratch in unity sometime in the next couple years though :)

Gotcha! :D What have you been writing, if I may ask? and Good luck!
-Elke-

Legacyblade

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Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
« Reply #80 on: December 22, 2014, 07:35:42 PM »
@Abrom,
Ah ok, I can see how things would be interpreted that way. Because I like fayte, I'm gonna defend her a bit here :P The scene with Aiden, yes, she thought Aiden was hot. But she was talking about it to tease Lee. Lee, being immature, reacted poorly to it, which sorta spoiled the mood and she decided to wait for another time to kiss him. If I remember right, three months have passed since Fayte became a Reaper. I always imagined that by the time Lee makes a contract, Fayte and Ember have been going out for just a couple weeks. They haven't had sex, but they do sleep next to eachother and have kissed. Being bisexual doesn't mean she's fine with any sensual relationship, Fayte just doesn't prefer one gender over another. She just went through a rather rough breakup, and Reapers aren't really allowed to spend time in the real world. So Fayte thinks she's never going to see Lee again. Her options are limited, and Ember's lack of emotional drama appeals to Fayte after what she just went through with Lee.

As for the time of day thing, naw, the time of day doesn't effect the cut-scenes you get. I took a lot of inspiration from harvest moon and person with how the cutscenes work. Once you get a character's affection to a certain point, you are allowed to see their next cutscene. Though you have to work really hard to finish any character's route in the time allotted, so I'm going to tweak that a bit.

Also,
Spoiler: show

That's a cutscene I was going to add in but didn't have time. Aiden spent a few months following Lee and Fayte around to get a general feel for their schedules. He finds out a time where they're supposed to meet up in a romantic spot up in the mountains and has a Tromuli help him lure a nightmare to cross her path. She knows what they are, and knows Lee is already there. The Tromuli is like "Ah, what a shame. It seems the Nightmare has caught the scent of a human up ahead. He'll likely be devoured before I can get a Reaper to him." And convinces her that the only way she can save Lee is to become a Reaper. Aiden doesn't do any of the convincing, so she doesn't suspect a thing. And even if she did know it was a setup, she  cares enough about Lee that I suspect she would have gone through with it anyways to save him.


Thanks for being so specific though :D I want people to actually like Fayte, so identifying specific bits of characterization that don't mesh well with you really helps me in seeing problems in the narrative.

@Elke, The past couple months, I've been working on a story that is (very very very loosely) based on the vocaloid song Servant of Evil. I wrote 50k words in it for NaNoWriMo, and it's called Oathbound. I was able to make the main character less of an annoying prick than Lee ended up being, though I feel I'm having problems making his little sister likable. So as she's getting more screentime in the latter part of the book, I'm trying to show more scenes where she's actually happy (as opposed to the angry stern attitude she puts up as a defense).

Abrom

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Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
« Reply #81 on: December 22, 2014, 09:00:38 PM »
Hey, no problem. I know you can get a lot more out of specific details than just a general overlay of things.
I kinda already knew the reasoning behind Fayte's actions, but her attraction to all the main characters, coupled along with her barmaid past, just made her seem like someone that you/Lee shouldn't get attached to.
When I played the game, I had bounced back and forth between raising my relationship with Ember and Fayte. I advanced my relationship several times with Fayte, since I was curious to learn about her story. I went a few times with Ember, but I gave up on her, since it seemed that I wasn't going to get any story out of her, and instead, it was just going to be her trying to drive home that she wants Hot Lesbian Action with Fayte. I mean, really, she teased me with HLA more than the WWE (been many years since I watched wrestling, and I don't know if they still try to lure in viewers with girl on girl action, but I imagine that they do). I only hung out with Aiden once, and it turned out to just be this comedic and sarcastic back-and-forth. I was left with an impression that that's how most of my time with him would play out, and I wouldn't really get as much story out of it as I wanted, so I didn't bother with him again.
But, really, my biggest complaint was the blame game that the characters kept playing. It seemed like a cheap way of trying to create extra drama between two characters, even when it was very clear that the blame shouldn't have cast that way. Out of all the times it happened, the biggest example of this abuse that I can think of is...
Spoiler: show
When Lee was blamed for awakening evil Edmund.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 09:15:20 PM by Abrom »
River: *Drops hacky sack*
River: "Can you throw this is as far as where Anya's at?"
John: "I can try."
John: "(Now I'll amaze her with my feat of strength.)"
John: *Throws hacky sack into ocean*
River: *Runs to cliff edge*
John: "River! Stop looking at my awesome throw and get away from that ledge!"
River: *Backs into John and silently sits down*
John: "(...Nailed it.)"

Elke

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Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
« Reply #82 on: December 22, 2014, 10:56:41 PM »
Oh I love that song! Dang that's a lot of words! :D Are you keeping with the same plot? Or changing it? (Can I read it when you finish?)
-Elke-

Legacyblade

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Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
« Reply #83 on: December 23, 2014, 12:56:34 AM »
@Elke, I'm surprised I was able to write so many in a month o.o I'm also surprised it's taken more than 50k words to tell a story based on a 5 minute song XD  All the elements of the plot are there, but I've had to add A LOT to make it my own and a story fit for a novel. So it's more inspired by Servant of Evil than based on it.  I'll have tiny allusions to the inspiration (like keeping the characters dressed in the color associated with their role in pivotal scenes, having the character based on Rin say "Now, bow to me" and "oh, it's tea time", etc.) and sure! You can read it when I finish! :D

@Abrom, ah yeah! That part of scene you brought up in the spoiler tag was pretty poorly handled. Aiden's reveal of what happened, along with Fayte blaming Lee for what was happening was clumsily executed. I was swiftly coming up upon the deadline and realized I needed all that information in there but didn't have time to make any proper cutscenes for it >.>

Funny thing is, you actually get a lot more story out of Aiden than you do out of either of the girls lol! There's a lot of goofing around on his part, but you find out the most about the world and story via Aiden. I'm planning on making the time "until the world ends" be two weeks or so. That'll give more time to get comfortable with the gameplay mechanics, try out different character routes, and also let me stick in more mandatory cutscenes so I can give players more information without having massive info dump cutscenes (like that one where the Tromuli explains about the mechanics of stabbing nightmares in the face)

The thing I'm hoping will help increase engagement the most is give the player a bit more control over Lee's personality early on. My current plan is to add an "angst-o-meter". Depending on the things you choose to have Lee say, he will react in stressful cutscenes accordingly. Like the early scene where he breaks Ali's shin. If you've had Lee take his anger out on people, he'll break Ali's shin by getting carried away in practice. If, on the other hand, you've played him as being more mature about the breakup, that particular accident won't happen. I thought of this after watching some of my friends play. During the character cutscenes, they always picked the angry angsty answers, because Lee already had an established personality by the time they got control of him.

I'm also planning on breaking up the beginning sequences by giving the player control of Fayte for a tutorial mission. I think I could use this to show her not latching onto Ember right away. Showing her outside of the drama her and Lee's interaction make might help her seem less shallow and angry. What do you think?

Abrom

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Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
« Reply #84 on: December 23, 2014, 07:33:51 AM »
Quote
I'm also planning on breaking up the beginning sequences by giving the player control of Fayte for a tutorial mission. I think I could use this to show her not latching onto Ember right away. Showing her outside of the drama her and Lee's interaction make might help her seem less shallow and angry. What do you think?
I think that would be a great idea. Because as it is, the good things about Fayte seem to have the same, or even less, facetime as the things about her that could be interpreted in a bad way. Instead of it just being told in a sentence, from Ember, about how Fayte was hurt and how she talks about Lee all the time...being able to actually see it, could make me feel more for her. This would also be a great opportunity to make Ember a bit more human, instead of an animal in heat. I mean, I get it, she's pervy. Those people exist. But, I don't think that should be the basis of Fayte and Ember's relationship. Being able to actually see Ember make a connection with Fayte, via true care and compassion, would also make me feel for Ember as well. And, I don't know if we would get this story in this part as well, but hearing about Ember's backstory would be helpful. Or is that something that's revealed at the finale of Ember's relationship with Lee? Seems like Fayte would have definitely heard it before dating Ember, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be shared with the viewer at that point.

Also, any chance on extending the three month gap in between Lee and Fayte's breakup, and their reuniting? It just seems like a couple months is such a short time for Fayte to give up on seeing the real world and Lee again. It could also make Lee's depression over the matter seem like even more of a concern, and emphasize just how torn up about it he is. Maybe go with six months?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 07:40:28 AM by Abrom »
River: *Drops hacky sack*
River: "Can you throw this is as far as where Anya's at?"
John: "I can try."
John: "(Now I'll amaze her with my feat of strength.)"
John: *Throws hacky sack into ocean*
River: *Runs to cliff edge*
John: "River! Stop looking at my awesome throw and get away from that ledge!"
River: *Backs into John and silently sits down*
John: "(...Nailed it.)"

Elke

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Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
« Reply #85 on: December 23, 2014, 11:39:03 AM »
@Elke, I'm surprised I was able to write so many in a month o.o I'm also surprised it's taken more than 50k words to tell a story based on a 5 minute song XD  All the elements of the plot are there, but I've had to add A LOT to make it my own and a story fit for a novel. So it's more inspired by Servant of Evil than based on it.  I'll have tiny allusions to the inspiration (like keeping the characters dressed in the color associated with their role in pivotal scenes, having the character based on Rin say "Now, bow to me" and "oh, it's tea time", etc.) and sure! You can read it when I finish! :D

Haha, that is surprising its taking so many words, but it must be pretty thorough then ;D I like the idea of little allusions! Sounds promising~~~
-Elke-

Abrom

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Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
« Reply #86 on: December 23, 2014, 01:40:25 PM »
Quote
@Elke, I'm surprised I was able to write so many in a month o.o I'm also surprised it's taken more than 50k words to tell a story based on a 5 minute song XD
I imagine that you're referring to this version? (Didn't listen through it all the way, hurts my ears too much.) -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYJATjB88lI
The ONLY good version I found of any part of the Story Of Evil, would be this -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1i7_MzRAqo
Other than that, whether it's an english dub or not, the vocals are just so high pitched in every version that it's literally painful to listen to :/ I wish there were some better versions out there...but, then again, maybe not; this does look like one of the most depressing things I've ever seen.

P.S. - You're really into the whole 'noble family' theme, aren't you legacyblade?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 01:43:40 PM by Abrom »
River: *Drops hacky sack*
River: "Can you throw this is as far as where Anya's at?"
John: "I can try."
John: "(Now I'll amaze her with my feat of strength.)"
John: *Throws hacky sack into ocean*
River: *Runs to cliff edge*
John: "River! Stop looking at my awesome throw and get away from that ledge!"
River: *Backs into John and silently sits down*
John: "(...Nailed it.)"

Legacyblade

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Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
« Reply #87 on: December 23, 2014, 03:27:23 PM »
@Elke, glad you think it sounds promising :) The biggest change between my story and servant of evil is that the Len character is 12 years older than the Rin one. I had to come up with some sort of reason for the girl to inherit over the boy. So I decided to make him a bastard. He was first in line to inherit, because the queen was barren. But once she actually bore a child, assassins were hired to take out Len. I needed him to be old enough for an oath to watch out for his sister to actually mean something to him (a toddler deciding he'll protect his sister won't give his life to it. A teen might take his oaths seriously enough to). I could have made Rin a bit older, but I like the idea of her not knowing Len is her brother. After Len goes through with killing Miku, they'll have a big confrontation in which he lets slip that he's her brother and that she screwed up his life by being born. I'm almost to the part where I get to write that scene, and I'm super excited :P

@Abrom, yeah, a lot of vocaloid songs are WAAAY to high pitched. You might enjoy the Nico Nico chorus version, or the version done by the voice used to make the Rin and Len samples (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKpwEnSGcpI) It's transposed to a more human key :P It IS a rather depressing story, but it's also a touching one. And I like depressing stuff, so...lol. I love it.

And wow o.o I never realized how every story idea I come up with lately usually stars someone at least connected to a noble house. I think it's partially due to my upbringing (my grandpa was extremely rich, and was old enough that he still had that sort of mindset. He even tried to arrange a marriage between me and the daughter of some other rich dude to consolidate power lol), and also partially due to the fact that I think there have been more than enough farm hands from little villages as our main characters :P

Quote
I think that would be a great idea. Because as it is, the good things about Fayte seem to have the same, or even less, facetime as the things about her that could be interpreted in a bad way. Instead of it just being told in a sentence, from Ember, about how Fayte was hurt and how she talks about Lee all the time...being able to actually see it, could make me feel more for her. This would also be a great opportunity to make Ember a bit more human, instead of an animal in heat. I mean, I get it, she's pervy. Those people exist. But, I don't think that should be the basis of Fayte and Ember's relationship. Being able to actually see Ember make a connection with Fayte, via true care and compassion, would also make me feel for Ember as well. And, I don't know if we would get this story in this part as well, but hearing about Ember's backstory would be helpful. Or is that something that's revealed at the finale of Ember's relationship with Lee? Seems like Fayte would have definitely heard it before dating Ember, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be shared with the viewer at that point.

You do see a lot more of why she acts the way she does if you go down her route. A big part of why she is so vocal with Lee about her relationship with Fayte is because she's trying to diffuse the situation. After all the pain Lee caused Fayte, Ember isn't exactly his biggest fan. But rather than being mad at Lee, she's acting like they're best buddies and bragging about her relationship. There aren't many Reapers, and they all have to live together for the short time they're alive. The other reason she's so forward in her pursuit of Fayte is that they don't live very long. She decided she loved Fayte, and either of them could die at any time (they're both fighting Nightmares on a daily basis). So she wants to make the most of the time they have instead of taking things slowly.

So yeah, she'll be a bit less pervy from Fayte's POV, particularly before Ember decides to pursue Fayte. And I like your idea about showing Fayte complain to Ember all the time about Lee. (not really ALL the time, but show it at least once) That'll help drive home that she's hurting too, and also make it clear to the player that Fayte is still in love with Lee.

Quote
Also, any chance on extending the three month gap in between Lee and Fayte's breakup, and their reuniting? It just seems like a couple months is such a short time for Fayte to give up on seeing the real world and Lee again. It could also make Lee's depression over the matter seem like even more of a concern, and emphasize just how torn up about it he is. Maybe go with six months?

Three months is already pushing it a bit.
Spoiler: show

Aiden strongly suspects Lee will have the same power as Edmund. And since there are so few Reapers these days, he REALLY needs any advantage they can get. If you go down Aiden's route, you find out that he also believes Lee will be like Edmund in personality too. He thinks he'll make men aspire to be Reapers, rather than it just being the last ditch effort of desperate people with nowhere else to go. He ends up pretty pissed off that Lee doesn't care about being a Reaper and that he's not the inspiring leader his grandfather was.

So if the plan with Fayte didn't pan out quickly enough, he would have been trying other things to get Lee to become a Reaper. Being in a weird shadow world fighting monsters would make time feel a lot slower. Three months might not be much for someone living a normal month, but in that situation, three months would feel like AGES. Plus the other Reapers are telling her that she most likely won't be alive much longer, and that Aiden is the only Reaper who's ever really allowed out into the real world. So between how long it'll have felt to her and the things the other Reapers tell her, I think she's justified in thinking she'll never see Lee again. And he did treat her like crap, so she wouldn't really feel any sort of obligation towards him.


I might have to send you a copy of the story I'm writing (Oathbound) when it's finished and get your feedback, lol. I feel like I get a lot out of your criticism.

Abrom

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Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
« Reply #88 on: December 23, 2014, 06:02:25 PM »
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my grandpa was extremely rich, and was old enough that he still had that sort of mindset. He even tried to arrange a marriage between me and the daughter of some other rich dude to consolidate power lol
Wtf? Does that stuff still happen?
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Three months might not be much for someone living a normal month, but in that situation, three months would feel like AGES. Plus the other Reapers are telling her that she most likely won't be alive much longer, and that Aiden is the only Reaper who's ever really allowed out into the real world. So between how long it'll have felt to her and the things the other Reapers tell her, I think she's justified in thinking she'll never see Lee again. And he did treat her like crap, so she wouldn't really feel any sort of obligation towards him.
I guess I never really felt like they were constantly doing battle, because in my whole playthrough, the only battles I did were the two, easy, scripted ones that you're forced to do, and then the final battle. I never felt like I was threatened by the thought world :/ Now, here's the thing about the 'feel' of time in that world. If time actually moved slower in that world than the real one, then I would understand how Fayte would give up in two months. If there was never a change in the time of day (especially if it was only darkness), which would make it very disorienting, then I would understand how Fayte would give up in two months. If I actually felt like every day was a constant and exhausting battle for survival, then I would understand how Fayte would give up in two months. But time is moving the same (if I understood you correctly), there ARE different times of the day, and since the thought world was as threatening as a weird, pink, camping site, I never got the feeling of hopelessness that Fayte experienced. And, since Aiden seemed to handle himself fine, and then he mentioned that everyone was about as powerful as he was...it just seemed like a cakewalk.
Perhaps one idea could be that you engage in a battle with the Nightmares after every interaction. Of course, I would only recommend this if you have a solid battle system. And, if you can't make a successful real-time battle system, you can always fall back on well-made turn based battles. RPGMaker works well for that; if done right, it can be very engaging, and it's got to be easier on the creator, since that's pretty much what it was made to do. I mean, if you were given these randomly generated battles after each interaction, where a fair amount (dare I say majority?) of the battles would be these intense miniboss-to-epicboss fights for survival, then I think that would get the point across about how dangerous it is to be a Reaper.
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I might have to send you a copy of the story I'm writing (Oathbound) when it's finished and get your feedback, lol. I feel like I get a lot out of your criticism.
I guess I'd be willing to give it a shot. To be honest though, I'm not much of a book reader. The only real reading that I do is with a gaming magazine while I'm sitting on the can :/ I need animation to draw me into a story. That's kinda why I'm doing my writing in more of the format of a script, because I do hope that one day it'll come to life via RPGMaker or whatnot.
But anyway, like I said, I can try to give it a read. But...I mean...this is a very depressing story, right? Am I going to feel like a pile of shit after reading it?

Oh, something else just came to my mind. In Fayte's tutorial, if you weren't planning on introducing any other Reapers, then I think you should change your mind, and here's why - You mention that Fayte keeps being told from the other Reapers that she probably won't get to see the real world again, but the only Reapers we even know of are Ember and Aiden, in which, half of those people are actually visiting the real world on a regular basis. You also mention, via Aiden I believe, that Reapers nowadays are people who have given up on life and pretty much decided to fight Nightmares, with the intention of dying. So, I think you should have a few other Reapers in Fayte's tutorial, and they should be these very depressing people that are hard to get along with. That would definitely make Ember's upbeat and affectionate attitude toward Fayte seem all that more impressive. Then, through these difficult battles, you could have the other Reapers die these horrific deaths, one by one. It might even help to just have one of them hang themselves or commit suicide in some way. I think that would really get the hopelessness feel across to the viewer. This all might make Fayte's tutorial more indepth than what you were planning, but I think it's necessary to establish the feel of the world, and heighten the viewer's feelings for Fayte and Ember.

P.S. -
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also partially due to the fact that I think there have been more than enough farm hands from little villages as our main characters :P
I actually feel like I've had enough nobles as main characters! Looking back on games and the few animes that I've seen this year, there have been a fair amount of rich, noble themed characters.
And, yeah, we due tend to put AT LEAST a little of ourselves into our characters. In the story that I'm creating, the main character actually is, more or less, a farm hand from a little village :/ But, that's also what my life pretty much is as well. Lol, you're the noble, and I'm the farm hand.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 12:27:34 PM by Abrom »
River: *Drops hacky sack*
River: "Can you throw this is as far as where Anya's at?"
John: "I can try."
John: "(Now I'll amaze her with my feat of strength.)"
John: *Throws hacky sack into ocean*
River: *Runs to cliff edge*
John: "River! Stop looking at my awesome throw and get away from that ledge!"
River: *Backs into John and silently sits down*
John: "(...Nailed it.)"

Legacyblade

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Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
« Reply #89 on: December 24, 2014, 02:46:47 PM »
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Wtf? Does that stuff still happen?

Sorta. My parents were determined to raise us kids as regular middle class people, even though they had tons of money. But some of my cousins have lived a more modern version of noble life. You're very strongly encouraged to date in your economic level, and my grandparents kept trying their hardest to convince me to go out with the girl they'd picked for me :P So you don't get forced into the stuff, but depending on who the rich grandpa in your family is, you COULD get disowned if you went against his wishes. I remember there were a couple of my cousins that were forbidden to be in my grandpa's sight. It was weird :P

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I guess I never really felt like they were constantly doing battle, because in my whole playthrough, the only battles I did were the two, easy, scripted ones that you're forced to do, and then the final battle. I never felt like I was threatened by the thought world :/ Now, here's the thing about the 'feel' of time in that world. If time actually moved slower in that world than the real one, then I would understand how Fayte would give up in two months. If there was never a change in the time of day (especially if it was only darkness), which would make it very disorienting, then I would understand how Fayte would give up in two months. If I actually felt like every day was a constant and exhausting battle for survival, then I would understand how Fayte would give up in two months. But time is moving the same (if I understood you correctly), there ARE different times of the day, and since the thought world was as threatening as a weird, pink, camping site, I never got the feeling of hopelessness that Fayte experienced. And, since Aiden seemed to handle himself fine, and then he mentioned that everyone was about as powerful as he was...it just seemed like a cakewalk.
Perhaps one idea could be that you engage in a battle with the Nightmares after every interaction. Of course, I would only recommend this if you have a solid battle system. And, if you can't make a successful real-time battle system, you can always fall back on well-made turn based battles. RPGMaker works well for that; if done right, it can be very engaging, and it's got to be easier on the creator, since that's pretty much what it was made to do. I mean, if you were given these randomly generated battles after each interaction, where a fair amount (dare I say majority?) of the battles would be these intense miniboss-to-epicboss fights for survival, then I think that would get the point across about how dangerous it is to be a Reaper.

My original plan was to have each of the level grinding sessions be a little dungeon with a boss at the end. But I like the idea of more mandatory battles. I think I'll even have some of the cutscenes (probably with Aiden) be "interrupted" my a swarm of Nightmares. Also, I'm going to remake the game in 3D, so I should be able to make the dream world look a bit more surreal (there's only so much you can do with pixel art) I don't want to have a turn based battle system, as I've never really enjoyed those, but I might compromise and make an actiony turn based battle like Paper Mario or (the street pass game) Monster Manor. They have real time elements, but are still turn based.

I didn't realize that the dream world felt safe o.o So thanks for pointing that out to me!

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I guess I'd be willing to give it a shot. To be honest though, I'm not much of a book reader. The only real reading that I do is with a gaming magazine while I'm sitting on the can :/ I need animation to draw me into a story. That's kinda why I'm doing my writing in more of the format of a script, because I do hope that one day it'll come to life via RPGMaker or whatnot.
But anyway, like I said, I can try to give it a read. But...I mean...this is a very depressing story, right? Am I going to feel like a pile of shit after reading it?

It's going to be less depressing than game of thrones. It'll be a bit more lighthearted than the walking dead games too. But it WILL be depressing. I keep enough light hearted moments in there, and want it to have a more melancholy than depressing ending. So you shouldn't feel like crap after it.

If you're not really into reading books though, I won't make ya read it lol.

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Oh, something else just came to my mind. In Fayte's tutorial, if you weren't planning on introducing any other Reapers, then I think you should change your mind, and here's why - You mention that Fayte keeps being told from the other Reapers that she probably won't get to see the real world again, but the only Reapers we even know of are Ember and Aiden, in which, half of those people are actually visiting the real world on a regular basis. You also mention, via Aiden I believe, that Reapers nowadays are people who have given up on life and pretty much decided to fight Nightmares, with the intention of dying. So, I think you should have a few other Reapers in Fayte's tutorial, and they should be these very depressing people that are hard to get along with. That would definitely make Ember's upbeat and affectionate attitude toward Fayte seem all that more impressive. Then, through these difficult battles, you could have the other Reapers die these horrific deaths, one by one. It might even help to just have one of them hang themselves or commit suicide in some way. I think that would really get the hopelessness feel across to the viewer. This all might make Fayte's tutorial more indepth than what you were planning, but I think it's necessary to establish the feel of the world, and heighten the viewer's feelings for Fayte and Ember.

I was planning on introducing a couple more characters. And I was planning on killing off at least one of them lol. Maybe I should have there be about ten Reapers when Fayte becomes one, and most of them get killed off by a surprise attack from a particularly nasty Nightmare. I was going to save at least one death to happen midway through the game. I'm going to try and make a girl EVERYONE will like and care about, then have her die early-ish. It'll help get across that main characters can die. And it should also help with the dream world not seeming threatening enough :D

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I actually feel like I've had enough nobles as main characters! Looking back on games and the few animes that I've seen this year, there have been a fair amount of rich, noble themed characters.
And, yeah, we due tend to put AT LEAST a little of ourselves into our characters. In the story that I'm creating, the main character actually is, more or less, a farm hand from a little village :/ But, that's also what my life pretty much is as well. Lol, you're the noble, and I'm the farm hand.

I think maybe fiction in general is moving towards focusing on rich characters for a little while. But off the top of my head, the only really rich characters I remember in any anime I watched this year have been Rin from Fate/Stay Night, Iona (however you spell it) from Iona of the Dawn, and...hmmmm. Was Nisekoi this year? I know a lot of shows feature rich characters, but they're usually not the main character. Or if they are, they act like a normal poor person and shun their noble life.
And hey! There's nothing wrong with the farm hand being the main character. I just feel like I've read too many where a normal everyday guy is the main, so I want to write something different. One story I'm also working on has the main character as a monster who's a noble's pet mercenary. He's less than a slave. I find writing him to be refreshing too. I can't ever see myself writing a luke skywalker though.