Author Topic: Should the military service be mandatory?  (Read 22060 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Oink

  • Tier 3
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Should the military service be mandatory?
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2014, 01:55:37 PM »
Yo folks! How's things recently.

Oh, so we're talkin' bout whether soldiering is the responsibility of the citizen. Well, answer's obvious: its a necessary evil. Havin' been on a coupa o' tours myself, I dare say there are folks around that can't be reasoned with. There are folks that just don't take no for an answer, and there are some that can only rest when you and your allies are six feet under. Can't say I'm a saint myself, but at least I can sleep easier knowing that those folks won't be stickin' around the neighbourhood with my bros watchin'.

Thunderbird

  • 雷の鳥
  • *
  • Tier 7
  • **
  • Posts: 1573
  • Gender: Male
  • Flame Haze
  • Current Mood: happy happy
Re: Should the military service be mandatory?
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2014, 02:29:07 PM »
Oh, so we're talkin' bout whether soldiering is the responsibility of the citizen. Well, answer's obvious: its a necessary evil.

I have to disagree, dear sir Oink. Even if it's required to have some soldiers, the army can be recruited from people that want to do this job. So you probably have a smaller, but more professional army.
Even if you are nothing more than a drop in a bucket...
Every drop leaves ripples.

SinnyVic

  • Tier 4
  • *
  • Posts: 123
  • Gender: Male
  • Current Mood: thoughtful thoughtful
Re: Should the military service be mandatory?
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2014, 02:44:10 PM »
Oh, so we're talkin' bout whether soldiering is the responsibility of the citizen. Well, answer's obvious: its a necessary evil.

I have to disagree, dear sir Oink. Even if it's required to have some soldiers, the army can be recruited from people that want to do this job. So you probably have a smaller, but more professional army.

I have to disagree, dear sir Oink Thunderbird. Even if it's required to have some soldiers, the army can be recruited from engineers that want to create unmanned vehicles giant mecha warriors. So you probably have a smaller, but more mechanized army.


Edit Note: Woops. Getting lazy with my copy pasta.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 03:08:06 PM by SinnyVic »

Oink

  • Tier 3
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Should the military service be mandatory?
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2014, 03:27:50 PM »
Oh, so we're talkin' bout whether soldiering is the responsibility of the citizen. Well, answer's obvious: its a necessary evil.

I have to disagree, dear sir Oink. Even if it's required to have some soldiers, the army can be recruited from people that want to do this job. So you probably have a smaller, but more professional army.

I have to disagree, dear sir Oink. Even if it's required to have some soldiers, the army can be recruited from engineers that want to create unmanned vehicles giant mecha warriors. So you probably have a smaller, but more mechanized army.

Yo Sinny and Thunder,

lolz. Professional or mechanized army... sigh... I wish that's so too. Problem is that threats to our homes ain't aimed at any civilized goals. Thanks to one full century of overseas intervention, we have accumulated enough enemies who have enough hatred to kill us ten times over ten generations. It's like weeds. Pro-army? They ain't gonna stick around ta deal with our toxic wastes once they've earned enough dough to retire to Hawaii.

I'm not saying pro-army ain't good. I've seen Gurkhas doin' 10km in full gear with M60 and 600 rounds on each arm. I've seen Irish boyz dive in some o' those digouts in Baghdad that my pop said remind him o' Vietcong. Sure, they are good at what they do. But there are hardly enough of them around to handle all the dirty work, and trust me, there's more than enough dung lying aroun'. Mech army, you say? Now that's awesome. Problem is our hardware's being sold through some back alley to the other side too. And China's always happy to discount sale what's not on the shoppin' list. So you see, it all boils back to ourselves fightin' for ourselves.

To conclude, every man should be prepared to defend his castle. Ain't no gettin' away in this cruel world.

Question Mark

  • 疑問符の人
  • Mod-Suspect
  • Tier 7
  • *
  • Posts: 1492
  • Gender: Male
Re: Should the military service be mandatory?
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2014, 09:13:57 PM »
To conclude, every man should be prepared to defend his castle. Ain't no gettin' away in this cruel world.
Sure. Just don't force me to defend your castle, or anyone else's but my own for that matter.

Oink

  • Tier 3
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Should the military service be mandatory?
« Reply #50 on: March 12, 2014, 12:49:57 PM »
Sure. Just don't force me to defend your castle, or anyone else's but my own for that matter.

Lol, kinda hard unless you're livin' in teepees.

Even if you don't respect the command and think nothing of the duty, show at least a wee bit o' gratitude to our boyz on the line. Like it or not though, there are folks out there stickin' their necks out for you and I even right now. Don't ask me to justify war or occupation; that's never why we served. The moment you're in, you're in for a penny, in for a pound, which means that you equate duty to the flag with duty to your friends and family. This is one screwed-up way of thinkin' but there's no other way of justifying things that are done to you and you are asked to do.

When you've seen how things are on the line, it starts to make sense in some horrible way. I mean, can such folks really exist? I've lost a couple of bros to guys that pretend to surrender, pretend to throw down their arms, just so that they can kill a couple more americans. And the worst part is, in retrospect, they are defending their homes - from us. So why are we out there in the first place? As I said, a hundred years of foreign intervention to defend our overseas interests. In some cases, to ensure that the gas continues to flow, so that the economy does not meltdown, so that you and I can continue to rant on forums such as this - or so we're told when we ask the chaplain. There really isn't much to justify in any case, other than the fact that the world's screwed up.

Question Mark

  • 疑問符の人
  • Mod-Suspect
  • Tier 7
  • *
  • Posts: 1492
  • Gender: Male
Re: Should the military service be mandatory?
« Reply #51 on: March 12, 2014, 01:31:41 PM »
Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for what the military does. People there do things with their lives on the line. However, that doesn't really justify dragging people into it when they don't want to. I don't hate the military, I hate conscription.

Oink

  • Tier 3
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Should the military service be mandatory?
« Reply #52 on: March 12, 2014, 04:41:24 PM »
Y' know, no one really likes conscription, but the alternatives ain't enough. Take drones for example. Ain't robotic weapons awesome? They won't even know wat hit 'em, literally. But all that accumulated hate... where does it go? it gets directed at the entire nation. And the worse part is, others catch on quick. Where they can compete technologically, they'd copy (China). Where they can't, they mix it up with the civilians to chalk up public support. I for one am thankful we didn't get involved in Libya or Syria. Those guys have learnt enough to know where to hit us where it hurts. Doesn't mean that I'd slink away if I get called up on another tour though. Guess its something of a zen feeling once you accept it.

Ferdk

  • *
  • Tier 7
  • **
  • Posts: 766
  • Gender: Male
  • Nothing is true, everything is permitted
    • My YouTube channel
  • Current Mood: thoughtful thoughtful
Re: Should the military service be mandatory?
« Reply #53 on: March 14, 2014, 11:27:15 PM »
Like it or not though, there are folks out there stickin' their necks out for you and I even right now.

Oh but are they? It sounds nice in the movies and in speeches, but in reality that's hardly ever true. They might think they're "fighting" for their families (nice logic though, let's fight for families in my piece of land while I destroy families that are in another piece of land) but in reality they're just pawns for the higher ups. It's never about defending anything but the interests of a few. It doesn't even matter if a handful (or a lot) really think they do fight for "the people" (again, the logic in that "people are the ones in my arbitrary piece of land" is astounding), they don't get to decide, and the ones who do get to decide, they don't care about you, or me, or any of their citizen.

War may be inevitable, but at the very least we should call it by its name. There's nothing noble in it. If there's anything that this subject proves me is how effective governments can manipulate its people. It's ingrained in many people from the US that these soldiers are heroes, ever doing good, protecting the weak, that it is honorable dying for a piece of cloth that represents the chunk of dirt your mother decided to gave birth to you in. All concepts that baffle me how anyone with a reasonable mind could accept as valid.
My YouTube channel (VG Covers and stuff):
http://www.youtube.com/ferdk16

Oink

  • Tier 3
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Should the military service be mandatory?
« Reply #54 on: March 15, 2014, 01:32:57 PM »
Oh but are they?

Yes, Ferdk, they are.

War may be inevitable, but at the very least we should call it by its name. There's nothing noble in it. If there's anything that this subject proves me is how effective governments can manipulate its people. It's ingrained in many people from the US that these soldiers are heroes, ever doing good, protecting the weak, that it is honorable dying for a piece of cloth that represents the chunk of dirt your mother decided to gave birth to you in. All concepts that baffle me how anyone with a reasonable mind could accept as valid.

Exactly 10 years ago, I asked my pop how ta get through my first week in Baghdad. We just had a farewell dinner, and the rest o' the family's hanging bout the house. Pop was playin' with my toddler niece Sandy who was just a year old then, and he just held out Sandy to me. "Well, son, when the goin' gits rough, just remember lil' Sandy o' here and think how much better for you ta be there instea' o' your brother." Ouch, that was some tough ol' lovin', but I kinda got what he meant. Me bein' there means that some other dude with a pregnant wife or some widow's kid won't have to be called up. Like it or not, justified or not, some would have to go, and a few would die.

I ask myself often what the mudderfakin' hel we were doin' in Iraq, and I still don't have the answer. Mankind goes to war for the most nonsensical of reasons and it's not my lot to reason why. The harsh reality is that we are protecting our friends and families not just from "evil commies", but from unwise decisions of our elected congress and president.

Ferdk

  • *
  • Tier 7
  • **
  • Posts: 766
  • Gender: Male
  • Nothing is true, everything is permitted
    • My YouTube channel
  • Current Mood: thoughtful thoughtful
Re: Should the military service be mandatory?
« Reply #55 on: March 15, 2014, 01:41:05 PM »
The harsh reality is that we are protecting our friends and families not just from "evil commies", but from unwise decisions of our elected congress and president.

Well, you're doing it wrong. You're not stopping your higher ups from making bad decisions, you're just "taking the bullet" instead of some other innocent person, but still perpetuating the procedure.
My YouTube channel (VG Covers and stuff):
http://www.youtube.com/ferdk16

Oink

  • Tier 3
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Should the military service be mandatory?
« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2014, 06:45:04 PM »
Well, you're doing it wrong. You're not stopping your higher ups from making bad decisions, you're just "taking the bullet" instead of some other innocent person, but still perpetuating the procedure.

I'm not gonna argue that. It's pointless to blame bad leadership or boast bout heroics because the world's more complex than simply blaming your leaders when bad things happen. As I've said before, there's nothing much to justify. I take up arms to defend my friends and family, be it an armed burglar or a foreign invader. Getting conscripted was part of the training I have to undergo in order to realise this. Getting sent off to a war I don't believe in was an unfortunate consequence of my country being led by leaders for which I have a responsibility in voting/not voting for. Discipline and chain of command demands that I obey even when orders are unsound. There's nothin' heroic bout being soldiers other than the fact that the alternative's to let your family and friends become slaves to foreign powers when they invade... though who's to say that we ain't slaves already to an unfeelin' wasteful political machine o' our own makin' already... Dam, dis subject's gittin' me real down. Let's talk bout food instead.

Merlandese

  • 静態の遊子
  • *
  • Tier 7
  • **
  • Posts: 5095
  • Gender: Male
  • ---
  • Current Mood: happy happy
Re: Should the military service be mandatory?
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2014, 07:14:30 PM »
It's ingrained in many people from the US that these soldiers are heroes, ever doing good, protecting the weak, that it is honorable dying for a piece of cloth that represents the chunk of dirt your mother decided to gave birth to you in.

And as a veteran, I can say that even though people were often legitimately proud of "protecting" the US, the simple fact remains that none of them would be in there if they weren't getting paid to do so. If you tell a soldier that he's working for free, and that he can't support his family, then he's not going to stick around simply to be a hero or protect the US. It might seem noble, but it's mostly another job.

Ferdk

  • *
  • Tier 7
  • **
  • Posts: 766
  • Gender: Male
  • Nothing is true, everything is permitted
    • My YouTube channel
  • Current Mood: thoughtful thoughtful
Re: Should the military service be mandatory?
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2014, 08:49:09 PM »
Getting sent off to a war I don't believe in was an unfortunate consequence of my country being led by leaders for which I have a responsibility in voting/not voting for. Discipline and chain of command demands that I obey even when orders are unsound.

Well that's exactly why I'm saying you're not fighting for anyone's families. Clearly you don't make any decisions as for what the military force actually does, then how can you claim "I fight for X reason"? You're not deciding what you fight for. You're offering yourself as a resource for someone else to use as they please.
You may want to convince yourself and others that you're fighting for your family, for your neighbor's family and for everyone in 'murica (clearly the only people worth defending), but in reality you're not really doing that because you can't pick your battles. You're a pawn. A pawn that has no choice. You don't get to defend anyone, you get to do someone else's dirty work and get a paycheck for it. The "protect freedom" speech is just something they brainwash you with so you can accept the job and feel proud about it. Part of that manipulation I talked about earlier.

For the record I have respect for the fearless people who can go outthere and face death, but I think they're doing it for the wrong reasons and glorifying the whole thing just makes it worse. There's nothing noble in dying for your country.

Quote
There's nothin' heroic bout being soldiers other than the fact that the alternative's to let your family and friends become slaves to foreign powers when they invade...

Because clearly every country without this sort of military power are all being invaded right now. Besides there's that thing again when the altruistic fairytale is short-sighted. It's always about "friends and family", it's always "I care about people, as long as they were born close to me because I don't know, that's a good reason to me". That's not really altruistic at all. You don't care about the impact your military has on anyone else's lives, it's the mentality of "everyone should stand up for themselves". Like you're part of this 'Murica team. You're a human, if you care about humanity then don't ruin other people's lives to satisfy your paranoic fantasies of freedom. When was the last time someone invaded your land? Why do you feel it's more noble, humane to defend the white family around the corner instead of not nuking a whole city filled with asian citizens? They're not good enough to deserve compassion? But obviously they're not part of your "team", not your problem, right?

Look, I'm not trying to be a hippie saying we all should love each other and destroy our guns or whatever. I'm just saying let's not call these things honorable, noble, or any other positive adjective because none will fit the bill. This is merely a sometimes unnecessary evil we got to live with. If you want to fight for your country, you're entitled to do whatever you want, I can't stop you. But let's not lie to each other saying you're doing for the good of mankind. You're doing it because you were brainwashed into it and because you give a damn about everyone else but those really close to you.
My YouTube channel (VG Covers and stuff):
http://www.youtube.com/ferdk16

Thunderbird

  • 雷の鳥
  • *
  • Tier 7
  • **
  • Posts: 1573
  • Gender: Male
  • Flame Haze
  • Current Mood: happy happy
Re: Should the military service be mandatory?
« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2014, 08:24:23 AM »
But let's not lie to each other saying you're doing for the good of mankind. You're doing it because you were brainwashed into it and because you give a damn about everyone else but those really close to you.

Or because you have no other choice.
And that's actually the topic of this thread, the question of choice.

This also opens up the possibility for you to judge the record of your military: Does it invade other countries recklessly?
Well, let's not join it then. Does it only provide self-defence of the country and is helping taskforce in case of disasters like floods? Hey, that doesn't sound too bad, might wanna join there.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 08:35:32 AM by Thunderbird »
Even if you are nothing more than a drop in a bucket...
Every drop leaves ripples.