Poll

Do you approve or disapprove of the proposed missile strike against Syria for using Chemical Weapons against it's people?

Approve
1 (11.1%)
Disapprove
8 (88.9%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Author Topic: The Syrian conflict  (Read 3147 times)

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atommo

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The Syrian conflict
« on: August 30, 2013, 02:16:59 PM »
This is a debate about the ongoing conflict between the public and the government about whether to take action on Syria for being suspected of using chemical weapons.

I personally don't like the idea of sending missiles over. It will achieve little, and could potentially drag China and Russia in, that might cause a global war in the worst case. However, whether Syria used chemical weapons against its people or not, something should be done. The best thing would probably be to simply make Assad step down and get in a democratic government.

There are plenty of other countries where I like the idea of abolishing their governments- *cough*North Korea*cough*China*cough*Certain parts of Africa*cough* and more.

So, the debate is, what do you think about America's stance towards Syria? Do you approve of what America wants to do? [Along with the other countries that are siding with America]

If you don't approve, what would you do instead if you had that sort of power?
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Ferdk

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Re: The Syrian conflict
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2013, 02:28:07 PM »
The problem with these things is... interests. That's what it comes down to.

I think we all agree something should be done if those people can't do anything themselves (because they get bombed by their corrupt dictators), but then the question is. Those who help (the US, for example), what do they gain from it? what will they demand from it? It'd be incredibly naive to think the US will chime in, spend millions in an operation to take down that government merely for doing "the right thing".

And then as you comment on more countries where you'd like to overthrow their governments. How much of that is influenced by what your government feeds your people (I'm assuming you're american)? In the US they do a great job of brainwashing their people into thinking their military is there to protect them and their families, which really astonishes me because you gotta be blind to not see that those soldiers are poor idiots doing the dirty work for the rulers of the country, NOT their people.
And like that, they can tell you how bad are all these countries with dictators, some may be right, but some may be not like they say, they just say it so you approve of your tax money paying for giving freedom to people... by force.

It's a veeeeery complicated manner, noone's gonna do the "right" thing just for the sake of it, so at this point it's more like which one is the lesser of two (or more) evils. So, to make my point clear, I don't really have a stance on the matter because I can't make up my mind which is the worst XD
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atommo

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Re: The Syrian conflict
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2013, 02:45:19 PM »
I'm not American, I'm from the UK :P And I don't want to overthrow those countries governments because of things the country tells me, [well maybe kindof] but its things like that guy in North Korea executing his previous girlfriend with a firing squad, making her family watch because his current wife was jealous, and the Chinese government censoring the hell out of information, as well as crushing any opposition by various methods.

I would even go as far as saying I would like to overthrow the American government too (To replace it with a more transparent government) [Since I dislike all the secretive stuff and the feeling that its all built on lies], along with the NZ government [They forced through a massive spying law that the rest of the country disagreed to] and plenty of others. Also, I think you're overestimating the American government's "brainwashing" effect. There are more people out there that feel the same as you and me than you probably think.

Also, when I say I want to overthrow the governments, I mean I want to pretty much clear everything and start from scratch again. Its like a computer full of viruses; unless you properly rebuild everything from scratch, there's probably going to be something bad left in there somewhere.

And yes, I can see an ulterior motive behind all of this.

This video might explain a lot:
The Road to World War 3
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 04:11:09 PM by atommo »
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Unimaginative Username

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Re: The Syrian conflict
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2013, 05:59:24 PM »
I would like to see his citation for the information used in that video, some bits have been left out in places to support his arguments and it would be interesting to see if that was a common trend throughout.

atommo

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Re: The Syrian conflict
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2013, 06:33:04 PM »
I would like to see his citation for the information used in that video, some bits have been left out in places to support his arguments and it would be interesting to see if that was a common trend throughout.

I don't know much about America's history, so could you tell me which bits were left out if you would be so kind :P
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atommo

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Re: The Syrian conflict
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2013, 03:33:30 PM »
Here are some opinions of others that are also living in the UK about the America-Syria conflict:
Spoiler: 1 • show

Spoiler: 2 • show

Spoiler: 3 • show


(I took the screenshots because I'm not sure if everyone who goes on this website can access the BBC site from their region)

(Also, the context of the comments are about Obama declaring a congress vote about the military strike after the UK voted against it themselves and also one or two might be talking about the French governments' backing America for the military strike)

These were the comments from a BBC news article. You can see the article yourself here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23916752

And also, even if that video I posted before wasn't 100% accurate, you can still see that something is probably going on.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 03:37:08 PM by atommo »
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Unimaginative Username

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Re: The Syrian conflict
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2013, 08:08:45 AM »
I don't know much about America's history, so could you tell me which bits were left out if you would be so kind :P

I speaks a lot about the US having a plan for taking out certain Middle Eastern countries but I see a few issues with this: why did the US not finish off Iraq in the first Gulf War when they had all of the international backing, it would have saved a lot of controversy later on and they would have had a better influence on the region sooner. Why did the US allow an enemy which could cause issues with the oil sales to survive and be bitter towards what the US had done to them? Surely the US officials could see that by not destroying the Saddam Regime they risk it retaliating in a different way, such as changing what currency they sell oil with, as revenge for their defeat years earlier and the sanctions placed on them.

He keeps mentioning the countries on his list which have been "covertly" "destabilised" by the US and NATO as if using the word "covertly" provides immediate citation for that sentence. It also doesn't explain why other countries not related to the list have had rioting and revolutions in the region, some like Tunisia had them even before the ones in his list had. It seems a lot more likely that unrest has spread around those regions rather than it solely being down to the US and NATO conspiring in the shadows - that in itself makes it seem to me as if he has been "cherry picking" his evidence so that everyone instantly sees how his information aligns so well with his given evidence that they immediately believe everything he is saying, casting any omissions that suggest otherwise to his ideas as anomalies.

And I found what he said about Nazi Germany odd, he almost seemed to imply that the general populace disliked the Nazis as a whole and just failed to do anything when that wasn't really the case.

atommo

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Re: The Syrian conflict
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2013, 12:50:14 PM »
I get what you mean- The Nazi Germany comparison wasn't that relevant with what he was trying to get across. However I think in the Middle East, it was unstable to start with. Pretty much how I'm seeing it is America wants to take advantage of that instability.

I'm not sure about the Iraq thing.

Also in counter to the argument about the destabilizing, one country might have been destabilized, but that doesn't mean all of them were. Some may well have just been natural, since the middle east is pretty unstable already.

Maybe not everything fits exactly as the video says, but I wouldn't say the point it makes is incorrect either. There may well be other motives too.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 02:15:08 PM by atommo »
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Just Lance

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Re: The Syrian conflict
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2013, 08:06:23 PM »
The video has it's blanks it's unfortunately using method similar to what it's against... It make the thought about how many thing has started. Did you know that largest percent of Muslim radical arisen because of Soviet war in Afghanistan (1979 to 1989 referred to as Soviet Vietnam) from Pashtun, Tajiks (the two largest ethnics in Afghanistan) and other native mountain tribes because of religious Islamic school paid by UAE which enforced to the most strict version of Islam to over-border refugees (usually Pakistani borders)?
These poor lads (usually from teens to twenties) were indoctrinated into knowing whole Quran from their head without understanding the Quran or Islam. Then they were given a rifle and send back over border. They usually died as virgins. After Soviet war in Afghanistan has come to an end it left incredible number of uneducated lads that knew only  how to recite Quran and nothing else.
Do you know that Hussein was actually supported by British and American governments until this "cute lapdog" started to misbehave? (and killing thousands of his people was totally okay when he "behaved" to masters orders)
It lead him to try an invasion which "resolved" in First Gulf War.

As far as middle east goes there are several problems with the religion and nature of people. Many demand strong leader that will lead them a kind of monarch (it is proven that good lead dictatorship (or monarchy if you like) is the most effective regime for humans) but there is large group of people who want to become the leader which of course leads to the unrest and fractioning.

Also the problem kind of lies in Islam to be exact it's the easiest religion to misinterpret/bend for one simple reason which Muhammad though would make the exact opposite. He among other teached that Islam should remain in Arabic and never be translated to another language so it remains pure of misinterpretation which ironically lead most of today radicals the way of misinterpretation of Islamic faith because they mostly do not speak Arabic (other that that in Quran). You may be able to read it you may be able to understand it but you do not know the exact word-to-word meaning and that is the problem which can lead to things like "blow yourself up in the name of Jihad and Allah and you'll get 77 virgins in heaven... While Jihad strictly prohibits slaughter of non-combatants to say in modern military terminology.

Yes there might be some big economical-conspiracy-theory which probably is at least partially true but the problem still remains in the more simple matter: Lack of wisdom and too much of greed that causes suffering.

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Suffering is due to attachment
Suffering can be extinguished
And there is a way to extinguish suffering

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« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 08:14:20 PM by Just Lance »
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atommo

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Re: The Syrian conflict
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2013, 01:00:52 PM »
That's some interesting background info, Lance. I don't find it too hard to believe what you said about Saddam as well XD I guess back then it was a bit like what Russia is to Syria and what America is like to Israel now. I also agree that misinterpretation, especially in things like religion, can cause great problems.
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atommo

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Re: The Syrian conflict
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2013, 04:58:08 AM »
In an interesting turn of events, Russia is now saying it would not rule out using force against Syria if there is real solid evidence that the Syrian government did carry out a chemical weapons attack against the people of Damascus.

News article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23955655

"Mr Putin said Russia did not rule out supporting a UN Security Council resolution authorising force, if it was proved "beyond doubt" that the Syrian government used chemical weapons."
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atommo

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Re: The Syrian conflict
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2013, 04:06:35 PM »
I've got another update:
The Snowden Case What You're Not Being Told

World War 3 Has Already Begun
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 04:17:05 PM by atommo »
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