Author Topic: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?  (Read 27556 times)

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Dr. Zooks McCoy

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2013, 12:08:44 PM »
Since someone dragged up this topic again, POISONRABBIT XD...

... I have never heard of an animal that hurts/kills just for fun, either.

There was actually a horrifying story on NPR about animals doing just this.
Spoiler: slightly horrifying • show
It was in defense of the magpie being considered such a coldhearted creature, and they started listing stuff other birds and animals do. The one that made me flinch was deer caught on tape chasing down baby birds just to munch on them. And what Lan said is correct; consider whenever a dog or cat flings around a smaller creature, like a bird or squirrel, and destroys it, but never eats it. Guh... noo. D:

EgotisticalRaven

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #46 on: July 29, 2013, 01:59:02 AM »
The funny thing about what people say about this topic is that almost everything is.....  :LOT:


The topic is about whether or not it's right to kill/eat animals. The topic everyone is discussing is whether it's good for us to eat animals, whether it's right to torture animals and if we are built to eat meat. A lot of those topics aren't about whether it's moarly just to eat and kill animals. That's just something I've observed.
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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #47 on: July 29, 2013, 04:22:12 AM »
The funny thing about what people say about this topic is that almost everything is.....  :LOT:


The topic is about whether or not it's right to kill/eat animals. The topic everyone is discussing is whether it's good for us to eat animals, whether it's right to torture animals and if we are built to eat meat. A lot of those topics aren't about whether it's moarly just to eat and kill animals. That's just something I've observed.

Well new meat... Welcome in lands of Freebirdia. When Off-topic is always a topic.

As far as animal cruelty on other animals (humans excluded) there are many examples. Not only cats and dogs that "play with them to death" but also when Albinos are born they're usually rejected and torn apart.
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Merlandese

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #48 on: July 29, 2013, 11:53:54 AM »
The funny thing about what people say about this topic is that almost everything is.....  :LOT:


The topic is about whether or not it's right to kill/eat animals. The topic everyone is discussing is whether it's good for us to eat animals, whether it's right to torture animals and if we are built to eat meat. A lot of those topics aren't about whether it's moarly just to eat and kill animals. That's just something I've observed.

Certain topics are outer layer topics, and they spawn from other ideas that also need discussed or clarified.

For example, if you have the abortion topic discussed long enough, you'll notice that it "deviates" to the subject of whether humans have souls more often than you'd expect. This isn't because people are going off topic, but because a topic such as Do We Have Souls and When is important to the entire discussion.

Likewise, torturing animals, and your stance on it, has a direct correlation between whether it's right to kill and eat them. It may seem different, but you can't fully discuss a car without considering the road it has to travel as well.

EgotisticalRaven

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #49 on: July 29, 2013, 10:46:31 PM »
The funny thing about what people say about this topic is that almost everything is.....  :LOT:


The topic is about whether or not it's right to kill/eat animals. The topic everyone is discussing is whether it's good for us to eat animals, whether it's right to torture animals and if we are built to eat meat. A lot of those topics aren't about whether it's moarly just to eat and kill animals. That's just something I've observed.

Certain topics are outer layer topics, and they spawn from other ideas that also need discussed or clarified.

For example, if you have the abortion topic discussed long enough, you'll notice that it "deviates" to the subject of whether humans have souls more often than you'd expect. This isn't because people are going off topic, but because a topic such as Do We Have Souls and When is important to the entire discussion.

Likewise, torturing animals, and your stance on it, has a direct correlation between whether it's right to kill and eat them. It may seem different, but you can't fully discuss a car without considering the road it has to travel as well.

That's such a shame, the original topic seems more interesting, but I see what you're saying....  :(

Okay, I'll say something 'relevent', it matters not whether or not we have souls, we all return to the earth eventully, if our coffins don't get in the way.
Wait! That's irrelevent!  :facepalm:
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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2013, 04:45:38 AM »
Okay, here are my thoughts strictly on topic (according to what the title says, because I didn't read back the entire thread).

If you wanna view the big picture without going into details, then humans, too, are technically animals; mammals, primates to be exact, and just like other animals, we are omnivorous. There're herbivores, carnivores... We're just a circle of life. Carnivorous animals eat each other too, and they don't think about whether they're right or wrong, it's just survival of the fittest. The only actual difference between us and them is the development level of our brains, which leads us to being the ones who overthink stuff like this. If we go to the sub-topics about cruelty/experiments on/against animals, of course the opinions can get a lot more shaded, and both sides can have truth to their opinions (like pro/con vegetarianism), but whether we simply have a "right" to kill and eat or not...? Yeah, we do. As much as they do, to do the same to us, because there are some species that would, given the chance - we're just better prepared, more evolved.
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Dr. Zooks McCoy

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2013, 12:02:19 PM »
Le contradictory viewpoint: we have the right to do many things. We have the right to go to war, kill each other, even eat each other (giggity) like plenty of species do, provided the culture we're in permits it. Even then, we have the right to do absolutely anything our instincts please, provided we understand there are consequences. XD

But I believe, as evolved, self-aware human beings, we should be able to understand the limitations of natural rights, and do away with such barbaric things as killing animals - except in mercy.* And I believe all creatures have the same right to live, just as we all do. We don't need to kill them for pleasure, and we can coexist with a little care.
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*mosquitoes excluded

That being said, these guys make a good counter-argument...
« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 12:13:08 PM by Dr. Zooks McCoy »

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2013, 12:40:21 PM »
I don't fully get the topic title's question, are we thinking of "killing" and "eating" as separate things? I'm not in favor of killing for fun, but I'm all in for eating animals (don't know about you guys, but I prefer to eat them when they're already dead, so there's some unavoidable killing involved).

On that note:

You kill a potato the moment you pull it out of the ground.

/topic

You guys are all ummm... what would be the equivalent of specieists but in favor of animals instead of plants? animalists?

:P
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Dr. Zooks McCoy

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #53 on: July 30, 2013, 01:03:52 PM »

Merlandese

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #54 on: July 30, 2013, 01:37:19 PM »
You guys are all ummm... what would be the equivalent of specieists but in favor of animals instead of plants? animalists?

Faunists?  :seraisweat:

Ferdk

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #55 on: July 30, 2013, 02:22:06 PM »
You guys are all ummm... what would be the equivalent of specieists but in favor of animals instead of plants? animalists?

Faunists?  :seraisweat:

That would work but according to google that's what you call some who studies fauna :P
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Dr. Zooks McCoy

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2013, 02:40:48 PM »
You guys are all ummm... what would be the equivalent of specieists but in favor of animals instead of plants? animalists?

Faunists?  :seraisweat:

That would work but according to google that's what you call some who studies fauna :P

That makes us...


Edit: Oh, in favor of animals over plants... derp. :-X
« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 03:15:45 PM by Dr. Zooks McCoy »

Ronnie

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2013, 03:34:48 PM »
Le contradictory viewpoint: we have the right to do many things. We have the right to go to war, kill each other, even eat each other (giggity) like plenty of species do, provided the culture we're in permits it. Even then, we have the right to do absolutely anything our instincts please, provided we understand there are consequences. XD

Having the right by cultural laws and having the right by natural laws is by far not the same thing at all; please don't confuse the two. My point wasn't being based on laws humans set up; the entire point was to apply the law that applies to every living being and is self-explanatory, to humans as well, in the very same way it is self-explanatorily applied to every other living thing (am I overexplaining it?).

But I believe, as evolved, self-aware human beings, we should be able to understand the limitations of natural rights, and do away with such barbaric things as killing animals - except in mercy.* And I believe all creatures have the same right to live, just as we all do. We don't need to kill them for pleasure, and we can coexist with a little care.
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Again, I believe vegetarianism is not exactly the same thing as what my point was about.

But let me just emphasize it; my belief is that being an omnivorous animal (which, technically, homo sapiens sapiens is) means that generally (that means that there are a ton of exceptions but this is the major rule), the ideal consumption triangle is set up by both meat and non-meat (and a ton of other things, look it up if you'd like). Similarly, herbivorous animals cannot consume meat, while carnivorous animals can't live on plants alone. Omnivorous as we are, not to mention evolved enough to (more or less) make ourselves what we need to consume, I guess we can take our pick to a certain extent, but our food needs to contain both varieties. (I have a friend whose family is vegetarian, meanwhile she has a long-lasting problem with low blood iron level, so she literally cannot follow suit, or she ends up straight in the hospital.)

... Also, killing animals for the purpose of eating them is not "killing them for pleasure".
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Dr. Zooks McCoy

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2013, 03:52:01 PM »
(am I overexplaining it?)
*nods* XD

(I have a friend whose family is vegetarian, meanwhile she has a long-lasting problem with low blood iron level, so she literally cannot follow suit, or she ends up straight in the hospital.)

As a vegetarian, who was taught by Master Vegetarian Merlandese himself, I must point out that mushrooms, eggs, cheese, and plenty of other sources will fill a bloodstream with iron just as well as meat. Not to discount a health issue, of course; dem's srs bsns. D: My humble solution in that case would be iron supplements, but if old fashioned meat is in Doc's orders, by all means, eat dat bacon!

Er... but that whole paragraph was set up as a Tim Minchin parody. XD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bEGLbCNRqw

Post-note: I meant pleasure as in the pleasure of our tastebuds. :P Though one wouldn't know it after what McDonalds does...
« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 03:54:48 PM by Dr. Zooks McCoy »

SinnyVic

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #59 on: August 11, 2013, 11:06:33 AM »
Rights? That's pretty broad.


1. "Do I have a natural right derived from human nature to kill/eat animals?"
Do humans have the ability to kill and eat animals? The fact that we can, for me, just screams yes. If survival is at stake, then even more so.

2. "Do I have a natural right derived from the edicts of a god to kill/eat animals?"
Depends on the religion. I'm agnostic. Beats me yo.

3. "Do I have a cultural right derived from my society's customs to kill/eat animals?"
Yes. Killing/hunting and eating animals isn't exactly an uncommon thing in the USA.

4. "Do I have a legal right derived from my society's laws to kill/eat animals?"
Yes. The killing/hunting and eating of animals are not actions that are completely and totally banned by federal legislature in the USA.

5. "Is it morally right in my society to kill/eat animals?"
Is it ethical to breed (in horrendous living conditions) and slaughter animals (after only a few months of life) just to eat them? My friend says it's unethical, and that's why he turned vegetarian. I too say it's unethical. However, that doesn't stop me from eating animals; it just further dissuades me from personally treating animals unethically or killing them for no apparent reason.


But honestly, I just eat meat because of habit.

Since I've never attempted to truly quit eating meat, I will continue to eat meat. Meat is simply a source of protein that I've gotten used to eating. I'm just not used to eating specific beans, nuts, tofu, etc. for protein (and quite frankly I don't like eating many of the alternative protein-rich foods). Thus, there's a pretty good chance I'll stick to meat if there continues to be a surplus of it.


On a side note, I will have to agree with Zooks' response to this:
I have a friend whose family is vegetarian, meanwhile she has a long-lasting problem with low blood iron level, so she literally cannot follow suit, or she ends up straight in the hospital.
That sounds extremely serious. If it was just normal iron deficiency, then an increased uptake of other vegetarian iron-rich foods or an iron pill should do just fine... Sorry to nitpick, but it's just a bit strange that she can't be vegetarian because of low iron levels.