Author Topic: <spoiler> Please, why ruin the metaphor?  (Read 34500 times)

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Ferdk

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Re: <spoiler> Please, why ruin the metaphor?
« Reply #120 on: August 21, 2012, 08:12:27 PM »
Hmmmm, I guess I'm selfish then :P you're making me reflect on past decisions now... XD I guess, um... I guess I'm guilty of being "that" guy that thinks he knows better than you what you need, sometimes. Now I'll go back to my daydreaming and introspective reasoning to update my database
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Alectrick

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Re: <spoiler> Please, why ruin the metaphor?
« Reply #121 on: August 21, 2012, 08:19:51 PM »
Oh, I do disagree. :p

Good intentions aside, if I make a decision, and you disrupt my decision so that I'll stay in your life, you've decided that the happiness you feel when I'm in your life is more important than my free will. In other words, you disregard my decision for your own happiness. Even more simple: what you want > what I want.

Replacing my choice for your comfort is selfish. A tricky kind of selfish, maybe, but selfish at the core.

As for Johnny's high school selfishness, that drags on through his life, I believe. We know that he doesn't like his normalcy. His name, John, is even normal. He represents your average Joe, and his feelings towards the stars--how he thinks they all look the same as each other--shows that he has a real yearning to be unique. This probably stems from the fact that as a child he was the "lesser" of an near-identical pair. But whatever the reason, his view of River, in both meetings, is primarily fueled by how unique she is. He wants that.

I could argue--and shall argue--that his interest in the unique was such an attractive force that he wanted her in his life so that he wouldn't be so normal. There are a few lines between them where he asserts that the issues she's having are interesting in some way. The love he feels for her is a grown comfort. I'm not saying it isn't genuine, but that it stems from a selfish desire--to have something that makes him unique--and is perpetuated by a selfish desire--to keep that something.

At it's core, Johnny is acting only in his self interest, even if he doesn't know it. Until River's decision to forgo treatment came up, his selfishness never clashed with hers, and so it never seemed like a problem. And of course, it's not a problem. There's nothing wrong with Johnny wanting what he wants, but I maintain he was doing it for his benefit first and foremost.

I can understand if not everyone sees it that way, though. :p


Thats true... what i want > what you want is being selfish, but remember what Johnny said when he talked Isabelle, he wanted all for her, to pay the treatment and pay the house, that was his real desire, but he couldn't do it because they didn't have enough money, and think about this, what is the meaning of having the house and the lighthouse without her? nothing, and also think about the promise that Johnny made with River about caring the house and the lighthouse, after all he made it, even without understanding why she cared much for them, so he wasn't selfish there.

Back in High School, I understant that Johnny had that problem with himself. He wanted to be different, not another normal person, and when he saw River he knew that she was different. If we think it like that way, he's an asshole because he only wanted to be with her so his image can change to the others, or change his own mind about his life. But think about it, did he really wanted that at the end? he discovered that River is the love of his life and he always did everything for her. So many people start bad things or errors, but in the end, what it matters is the result... is not bad to change, worst is to keep those errors and make a snowball of them... and Johnny is not that case, because he gave EVERYTHING for her, so i can't think that he's selfish.

Anyway, it's my oppinion, i respect yours, but i want to be clear for what i said on the another message :P

 :DOT: Sorry for my english, i know it's not perfect but i hope you can all understant my "formal writing" xD  :DOT:
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 08:23:56 PM by Alectrick »

Chippy

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Re: <spoiler> Please, why ruin the metaphor?
« Reply #122 on: September 07, 2012, 09:37:54 AM »
Personally, I think this
River showing him the bunny and him saying that he see's the Moon, just like when they were little. That would be subtle and beatiful
is the "magical science saves the day" one, while the game ending is the mature ending
like in one part Eva said they weren't "there" to play God

Ferdk

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Re: <spoiler> Please, why ruin the metaphor?
« Reply #123 on: September 07, 2012, 11:49:32 AM »
That quote about the bunny doesn't make any sense, really (no offense intended if the poster is still around).

If River is showing him the bunny, its because he doesn't remember. Why would he snap out of it just like that? It doesn't make sense that something like the beta-blockers is introduced so they don't actually work later on. They're there to block the memories, the whole deal is that he can't remember. For him to remember would've made no sense whatsoever, but for him to remember at THAT moment (with the bunny) it would've made even LESS sense.
If anything then meeting River in highschool could've broken it, not a paper bunny.

But I originally didn't want to address specific points because the discussion is old and these posters are probably not around anymore, so its kind of unfair we can't give them the opportunity to reply back :P
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