Author Topic: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2  (Read 121303 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ruben

  • ~True Remembrance~
  • Mod-Suspect
  • Tier 7
  • *
  • Posts: 2115
  • Gender: Male
  • :)
  • Current Mood: happy happy
Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2011, 05:01:12 PM »
– more spotlight on the doctors' feelings
– maybe two clients in episode 2?

Logo98

  • Guest
Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2011, 08:34:09 PM »
Actually I'm not sure we need to see more of the outside world. It's a lot of mapping work and it takes away from the mystery of the background. There is only the house and the woods, everything else is fabricated from memory and fantasy. It's a little bit like the world of The Matrix - in the first movie there is that one lonely ship and we're only told what we need to know. The human city of Zion is more a concept than an actual place.

Good point SenorKaffee. I agree with a lot of things you said. You're analogy between TTM and the Matrix is good- after all, the Matrix sequels did kinda suck after all the mystery surrounding the series was removed. But I do feel that a sequel can successfully show a little more going on in the outside world without ruining things. The world need not necessarily be any larger- for example the setting can still take place at a patient's house or neighborhood. However, what could be added to is the importance of the area, including more important characters, events, or resources. I'd also argue that that Inception, a movie with a similar concept as TTM, was able to show much of DiCaprio's backstory and the outside world without jeopardizing the immersive feeling of its dream worlds. I think a lot of it has to deal with the execution.

There has to be a fine line between too much interaction with the outside world and not enough. Too much would kill the immersion. Not enough would cause the user to lose their sense of purpose while in the patient's memories. I think Episode One hit this balance very well, though a sequel may hold room for additions.

As for a tech upgrade, you never know. TTM has been getting a lot of good press. More profit and good word of mouth could allow for better production values or maybe even a move away from Enterbrain. (Even though I believe the engine worked wonderfully with the game's art style.)


Crusism

  • Tier 3
  • *
  • Posts: 86
  • Gender: Male
  • Life is beautiful, just look around you.
  • Current Mood: tired tired
Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2011, 10:10:28 PM »
-the memory has no memento and there's no way to extract one from the patient in the memory
-the machine fails to progress and needs to scan a real life memento to relate with one in a memory
-getting these mementoes could involve stealing from a neighbour or et cetera for comedy relief or character growth of protagonists a.k.a being SUPER DETECTIVES.
-a lack of a heart monitor to keep players worried to check up on the patient
-people who surrounds the life of the patient conspires against him/her and would make things harder
-the patient lacks a doctor due to insufficient funds and thusly needs the protagonists to swap shifts to watch over him/her
-a patient who wants to do this while he/she is still concious but near death.

"In life, we do things. Some, we wish we had never done and some we wish we could replay a million times. They make us who we are and, in the end, they shape and detail us. If we were to reserve them, we wouldn’t be the person we are today. So, just live. Make mistakes and have wonderful memories. But, never second guess who you are, where you’ve been and, most importantly, where you’re going."

Aight

  • Tier 1
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2011, 09:13:59 AM »
- More diverse soundtracks for more wider categories for emotion, I think I heard around 4-5 songs.. some may have just been songs presented in different cuts (tough one, but worth trying no?)

-"Scientific" information about the "machine" something thats reasonable, so there won't be any "Well the story revolves around some unknown machine that sends you into memories.." I know inception did that but if were gonna have a sequel we'd want the one of the core components of the game to be just a bit logical

- More insight into the doctors life to build character? I think this goes without saying, but w/e worth pointing out

- Some more game mechanics, called for any sequel so likewise

- A great story :)

Fruit

  • Tier 2
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Gender: Male
  • Who wants to FIGHT!?
  • Current Mood: thoughtful thoughtful
Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2011, 12:32:20 PM »
Quote
The protagonists could be bothered by activists who can't stand their actions, making the game harder in a way.

Actually I'm not sure we need to see more of the outside world. It's a lot of mapping work and it takes away from the mystery of the background. There is only the house and the woods, everything else is fabricated from memory and fantasy. It's a little bit like the world of The Matrix - in the first movie there is that one lonely ship and we're only told what we need to know. The human city of Zion is more a concept than an actual place.

Good point SenorKaffee. I agree with a lot of things you said. You're analogy between TTM and the Matrix is good- after all, the Matrix sequels did kinda suck after all the mystery surrounding the series was removed. But I do feel that a sequel can successfully show a little more going on in the outside world without ruining things. The world need not necessarily be any larger- for example the setting can still take place at a patient's house or neighborhood. However, what could be added to is the importance of the area, including more important characters, events, or resources. I'd also argue that that Inception, a movie with a similar concept as TTM, was able to show much of DiCaprio's backstory and the outside world without jeopardizing the immersive feeling of its dream worlds. I think a lot of it has to deal with the execution.




To the Moon works well as a contained story, sure, but I also think it should be expanded to include more "interaction." I was confused that the game didn't do much to clarify how this technology fits in the world. Neil and Eva are employees of Sigmund Corp. but is this a private firm or government owned? More importantly, is it public?

To the Moon has similarities to Inception and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless mind but those two movies show radically different uses for similar technology. In Inception, Cobb and his team use technology developed in secret by the military that is now used in the world of corporate espionage. Not a lot of people knew about entering dreams. In Eternal Sunshine, Lacuna is a regular company that can apparently be used by anyone, it isn't used by the government or shady corporations and is actually poorly regulated.

How does Sigmund Corp. compare to Cobb's team and Lacuna? Crusism's idea of activists seems very likely to me. With all this bioethics debate going on right now I can imagine there would be a lot of debate on how morally correct it is to give people delusions just to make them feel more accomplished before they die. More intense and useful/dramatic for a game would be some religious group who see that Sigmund is playing God and actually come after the good doctors.

On the personal side, I would like to different doctors that form different teams and work with different styles.
Also, I would love to see AI characters but that's entirely for my satisfaction ;) feel free to ignore that request, developers.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 11:59:39 PM by Fruit »
"Man is least himself when when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

Judedeath

  • ~Insert Japanese things here~
  • *
  • Tier 7
  • **
  • Posts: 2241
  • Gender: Male
  • JOHN-PEE-AIR!
  • Current Mood: happy happy
Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2011, 07:12:10 PM »
-"Scientific" information about the "machine" something thats reasonable, so there won't be any "Well the story revolves around some unknown machine that sends you into memories.." I know inception did that but if were gonna have a sequel we'd want the one of the core components of the game to be just a bit logical

I'd have to say no this IMO for me the machine doesn't matter more than a framing for the story, it's a enabler the way it works isn't that important only that it works. But well that's only my opinion. 
Old River was as dead as a doornail, this must be distinctly understood or nothing wonderful can come of the story I am about to relate.

Crusism

  • Tier 3
  • *
  • Posts: 86
  • Gender: Male
  • Life is beautiful, just look around you.
  • Current Mood: tired tired
Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2011, 12:01:12 PM »
-The patient being a loved one of one of the doctors.

-The protagonists have to constantly move the patient from one place to another due to a problem. Either people or the power for the machine needs or something else.

-More objects are observable that could be for forensics and notes. Something like L.A. Noire.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2012, 02:26:08 PM by Crusism »

"In life, we do things. Some, we wish we had never done and some we wish we could replay a million times. They make us who we are and, in the end, they shape and detail us. If we were to reserve them, we wouldn’t be the person we are today. So, just live. Make mistakes and have wonderful memories. But, never second guess who you are, where you’ve been and, most importantly, where you’re going."

Gardgio

  • Tier 1
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2012, 07:53:05 AM »
"To the moon" is the best story-telling game I ever played in my life,  :plat:
And because of the awesome BGM make me feel more in the game.
Everything in the game I'm so appreciate it.
The thing that I wanna say is...."Keep making new episode"
I can't wait to see trailer next episode.

Crusism

  • Tier 3
  • *
  • Posts: 86
  • Gender: Male
  • Life is beautiful, just look around you.
  • Current Mood: tired tired
Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2012, 02:53:26 PM »
-The patient could fall in and out of consciousness. Worst part could be that this happens during the desire transfer. Possibly shattering progress and making things bad.

-The patient could possibly share memories with the previous patient or those related to that patient. Thusly, showing some content to remind the protagonists of what they've been through or what choices they have done in the previous installment. Example, this patient could be one of River's few friends and did attend for her wedding but was never recognised by Johnny.

"In life, we do things. Some, we wish we had never done and some we wish we could replay a million times. They make us who we are and, in the end, they shape and detail us. If we were to reserve them, we wouldn’t be the person we are today. So, just live. Make mistakes and have wonderful memories. But, never second guess who you are, where you’ve been and, most importantly, where you’re going."

Tumbles

  • 海が私の心です。
  • *
  • Tier 7
  • **
  • Posts: 3956
  • Gender: Male
  • I am who I am, but not yet.
    • Big Palooka
  • Current Mood: cheerful cheerful
Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2012, 08:55:05 AM »
-The patient being a loved one of one of the doctors.

Love this idea. Imagine the doctors going through memories of a loved one and having to change memories with themselves in the memory. I can see some serious emotional potential.

Spoiler: show


                                         

~

Benedict

  • Tier 1
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2012, 08:22:09 PM »
A number of these suggestions are pretty specifically about story details. I'm of the mind that the best story is the one the author tells, so I don't really have any input regarding that kind of thing (although that one about the subject dropping in and out of consciousness would be interesting to see as far as the effect on the memory-path-thing goes).

There's a few things I'd like to see as far as gameplay goes. The series is, pretty clearly, about the story being told- with the interactivity frequently downplayed. However, there are a few little gripes with the way the game plays- bugs, clunky controls, and some oddly-handled minigame segments. The big thing is WASD controls- there's two ways To The Moon played- with arrow keys and the spacebar, or with the mouse. Playing with the mouse, though, was realistically the only option, since you needed to wave it around and find where it turned into a magnifying glass- otherwise you'd have to comb every tile of every level by hand. The ability to use WASD and the mouse in tandem would really smooth out the game's presentation. I was also a little befuddled by the strict grid-adherence bit, but I can see why it'd be more trouble than it'd be worth to have freeform movement- I've had experience trying to map collisions to loads and loads of customized scenery, and it's pretty much a nightmare. A little better pathfinding with the mouse controls would be nice, though- I frequently ended up clicking on one thing only to have Rosalene meander off in a totally different direction (and sometimes into a different room). The zombie-Eva shooter bit at the end was cleverly handled and laugh-out-loud hilarious in spots, but the controls were a bit dodgy. Directional firing with WASD, independent of player position? I fought the controls through that whole segment, really. I can tell there was a lot of effort put into making movement work right, but it could stand to be a little better, as controls frequently broke immersion.

But enough about that- that's all stuff for the Technical subforum, really. At least, I think so. I have terrible luck with sorting out subforums and threads when I first join message boards. There's some other stuff I'd like to say regarding narrative presentation.

One of the frequent criticisms leveled at To The Moon is that Watts and Rosalene's commentary and snarking frequently broke the mood. I'd encourage you (as in, Reives, I guess, because he reads at the forums a lot and will likely see this? I could be wrong, but I'll keep using... what's the term, apostrophe? Whatever it is when you're addressing something that may or may not respond.) to avoid overreacting to that criticism. The relationship between Neil and Eva is clearly pretty important (and if the stinger at the end of TtM is any indication, eventually crucial), and their commentary is both genuinely amusing and subtly critical of the gaming mindset. "Why should we care? We're just here to reach the end!" The BATTLE SCREEN YEAAAAH sequence was especially indicative of that, serving to highlight that This Is Not What This Game Is. Providing some well-balanced contrast to the heartfelt and sometimes sentimental tone of Johnny's story was a great idea. I'd recommend taking the purpose that served into account when writing the next story, though- if it's more intense or lighthearted or somber in tone, you'd want to adjust how to treat the way Neil and Eva (or some other characters?) are presented.

Lastly, some manner of... game-like progression would be useful. To the Moon had very little optional content- mainly in the form of flavor text, easter eggs, or branching paths. Perhaps instead of having exactly five mementos and five units of shield durability per memory, you could have, like, six or seven, with some that are hidden but that provide further context for the events of the story- but aren't strictly necessary to proceed. Maybe have collecting extra mementos (or uh, whatever they're called, the little colored orbs that break the memento shield) or perfect-solving the tile flip puzzles would let you unlock further notes or items or conversations or memories or... you know, something for the player to "do" while experiencing the story. While said experience should always be the focus of the game, and you wouldn't want to distract the player, there are people who just won't have the attention span for a totally linear world.
also maybe make those tile flip puzzles be a little harder than "click the diagonal button to win", like i dunno stick some pointless score multiplier in or have moving bits or whatever, spice up those puzzles

So yeah, that's my two cents on how episode two should go! Ultimately, it's going to come down to the story and how it's presented, but I've got no doubt that it'll be fantastic. Keep up the good work, Reives!

EDIT: Oh, while I'm at it, I should mention that the Freebird Games support page is out of date- says all content is available free of charge, no To the Moon stuff, etc. Not totally sure whether the forum's site feedback board is for the message board site or not.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 11:20:20 PM by Benedict »

Crusism

  • Tier 3
  • *
  • Posts: 86
  • Gender: Male
  • Life is beautiful, just look around you.
  • Current Mood: tired tired
Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2012, 09:09:26 AM »
The next episode could support 3D glasses or have a scene that would give bonuses from the use of 3D glasses like hidden mementos. Just saying. :P

"In life, we do things. Some, we wish we had never done and some we wish we could replay a million times. They make us who we are and, in the end, they shape and detail us. If we were to reserve them, we wouldn’t be the person we are today. So, just live. Make mistakes and have wonderful memories. But, never second guess who you are, where you’ve been and, most importantly, where you’re going."

Zombieva

  • Guest
Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2012, 04:36:11 PM »
I've always had this crazy idea that one of the doctors themselves would be dying, but their request would be for the other doctor to fulfill their dream. Can't really say I'd want that to happen, though; I love Neil and Eva too much to wish that upon them. ^^;

Reives

  • Dr Platplat
  • Director
  • Tier 7
  • ****
  • Posts: 11332
  • Gender: Male
    • Freebird Games
  • Current Mood: happy happy
Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2012, 05:09:44 PM »
Just wanted to say thanks for all the feedback so far, guys! I've been reading them carefully, and will try my best to take them into account for the next episode where possible. :)

(Oh, and aye, Freebird Games' website is being completely redone -- the new version should be up in about a week!)

Amarganth

  • Tier 2
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2012, 06:46:46 AM »
1) Either make the 2 doctors important aspects of the story or make them the background. Their constant nagging without getting anywhere in the beginning was funny but got really tedious towards the end.
2) Get rid of the puzzles. All the game needs to be is like Lullaby...with a tiny hint of interaction: the player moving the character(s) and clicking on stuff to set things in motion. This type of game never was really a standard AAA game with a lot of interaction which lacks any story worth mentioning (like Skyrim for example), the puzzles are just distracting, annoying and irrelevant.
3) Don't mention details in the beginning of the story only to be revealed in the end...or never at all. Most people won't make the connection and won't remember the beginning.
4) Although this is probably too late since the series revolves around it but...try not to make the final version of someone's memories the altered version. There are many ways to do it, but like in John's example the way they were was the way they should have been left. The ending was corny and made no sense. Yet, the reason for the altered memories not to be the final version is due to them being a lie and for us players to know that is for us players to not appreciate them...hence we feel the character and us the players have been betrayed.
5) Keep up the music, it's perfect, no need to change the concept.
6) Get rid of pixel hunting.
7) Try to have more things happen in real life rather than in the memories since..well...memories are just that...memories. Whatever happens in those memories has much less impact than whatever happens in real life, hence I felt betrayed by the altered memories yet in the end didn't really care for them all that much...since that which happened in reality to John and River carried so much more weight, was so much more significant, was more heart touching...and really happened. One way of doing this would be for example to have the patient not be in John's state...to be dying but still walking, talking, interacting... To sum it up: keep most of the story in the real world.

I'll come up with more...
« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 06:54:57 AM by Amarganth »