Author Topic: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2  (Read 121181 times)

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Kaleb702

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Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2012, 12:12:02 AM »
I know I already contributed to this topic, but I found this message and I think it is the best idea someone could have had :


Lastly, some manner of... game-like progression would be useful. To the Moon had very little optional content- mainly in the form of flavor text, easter eggs, or branching paths. Perhaps instead of having exactly five mementos and five units of shield durability per memory, you could have, like, six or seven, with some that are hidden but that provide further context for the events of the story- but aren't strictly necessary to proceed. Maybe have collecting extra mementos (or uh, whatever they're called, the little colored orbs that break the memento shield) or perfect-solving the tile flip puzzles would let you unlock further notes or items or conversations or memories or... you know, something for the player to "do" while experiencing the story. While said experience should always be the focus of the game, and you wouldn't want to distract the player, there are people who just won't have the attention span for a totally linear world.


I think if something may be improved, it is this. I totally disagree with contributors who want a more conventional and basic RPG story (less things happening in memories, no elements in the beginning that can only be understood at the end, linear with no puzzles, less complexity, less ambiguous ending...).

Yes; the story should be filled out, not shortened. I agree completely.


There's another issue to all the people wanting different doctors and two patients and the like:
Too much change.
We don't want it changing too much too early, or you get a "this feels like a different game" feeling. And the story needs to be fleshed out consequently. These new doctors / pairs of patients need fleshing out, and detract from other parts as they are fleshed out.

ProtoMan

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Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2012, 06:46:14 PM »
Am I the only person who desperately wants Isabelle/Nicholas to be the patient in episode 2? I always wondered what was happening in the background with them... they seem like interesting characters, but all we really know is that Nicholas was friends with Johnny since highschool, and at some point he married Isabelle who has asphergers. We barely even know what they look like thanks to that blur on their faces...
Also, have you ever thought that the memory machine could have different uses? What if they're tasked with going through the memories of a murderer to find him innocent or not? Probably not happening, but just a random thought.

Phoebe

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Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2012, 08:39:01 PM »
Quote
they seem like interesting characters, but all we really know is that Nicholas was friends with Johnny since highschool, and at some point he married Isabelle who has asphergers. We barely even know what they look like thanks to that blur on their faces...

Actually, Nicholas isn't married to Isabelle. The latter mentions her husband in the scene where John is working on the house; his name is beyond me as of now, but it wasn't Nick.

ProtoMan

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Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2012, 09:36:48 PM »
Quote
they seem like interesting characters, but all we really know is that Nicholas was friends with Johnny since highschool, and at some point he married Isabelle who has asphergers. We barely even know what they look like thanks to that blur on their faces...

Actually, Nicholas isn't married to Isabelle. The latter mentions her husband in the scene where John is working on the house; his name is beyond me as of now, but it wasn't Nick.

Really? We hadn't met Nicholas at that point in the game so I guess I just assumed that it was Nick since she usually appears with him at her side.
I need to replay this game.

Noalium

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Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2012, 03:48:25 AM »
Just remember, not everybody can or will be pleased. If you try and please EVERYbody, more people will be turned off than those turned on. I have all sorts of ideas or concepts I think would be "great"...but I'm not a game designer. I believe the creation should be dictated by the author, and the results judged by the opinionated audience.

Where one person sees beauty, another person sees vulgarity. I commend you, for wishing to improve and take the series to newer heights. But...go with your instinct, never the let desires or requests of fans intervene with the authorship of a project. You made TtM behind closed doors, with I assume little to no fan input...you "winged" it, per se, and you know what? It worked.

Change it enough so that we notice change, cater to what worked and what fans did enjoy...but don't give us the same meal twice. Some features, no matter how familiar or nostalgic...might just have to be cut. Think of it like painting a portrait, but in a different light or angle.

Think of ATB battles, lets say from the Final Fantasy series. It was innovative in FFI. "Woah man, a game that caters to playing style! Fast or slow!" In the second one, it was present...and the third. Fourth. Fifth. Even the critically acclaimed FFVI had it. It crept its way into Chrono Trigger. All the way through IX. Most people still "loved it", it was what the expected, what they knew, an underlying facet of the FF series. The games evolved their playing style to keep the relatively boring ATB system fresh and innovative. With the "Attack for Strength, get damaged for Defense" level up system of FFII, the class system of FFIII. FFIV didn't offer much new, and V reverted back to the class system. VII brought the out of battle Materia system, but the actual battles themselves remained the same "Attack. Wait. Be Attacked. Wait. Attack" formula. Whereas summons, flashier magic, better graphics, epic story lines with immersing characters, and music all made the series great...actually "battling" enemies after say, the first ten or so hours became monotonous. Boring. Downright annoying, frustrating. People began to realize what ATB was all about and what it offered, and some turned on it.

Now, should Square have changed a tried and tested game mechanic, because of the outcry of a few? Most didn't seem to mind it. Most enjoyed it, in fact. But after nine titles, the "new" and "innovative" aspect of the ATB system had long worn off. Square saw the need and demand for a change. They had, in essence, pushed the ATB system to its absolute limits, and the old dog was tired. Didn't care about graphics, or story, music or title sales. ATB needed a rest.

X came out and fucked everything all up. Mmmhmm, great graphics. some of the best music in the series, one disk (haha! Screw you, lost FFVIII Disk 3!) and packed with what some would label as one of the best stories told in the series. But...what's this? New battle system? WHAT HAPPENED TO MY ATB FUCK SQUARE RAW RAW BOYCOTT

But you know what? It was a better game for it. The battles were actually "fun", yes, fun, instead of monotonous button mashing chores. I didn't groan as much as I nearly did every time a random battle was entered. Much was still familiar...but so much was cut, or flipped, with new ideas thrown in...that really, once I played FFX and saw the innovation that had avoided the game play of the series for so long, I without realizing it, noticed even more so how antiqued and flawed the ATB system was.

Rant over. The only advice that I can offer, is take a long, hard look at TtM and look at what would become boring and worn out in a second, third, or fourth title. The memento puzzles were nice, but will they hold up in a second, third, or fourth title? The story is great, the characters unique and funny, and the title worked. Simple. It's a great title, and none of that needs to be changed much. But I think we all can agree that it's slightly lacking in the game play department. Don't sacrifice story, nor characters for such. That is where your games will always shine, and why so much praise was given.

But as with praise, criticisms much be looked at and appreciated just as in depth. Not because we're dogging you, or wanting to make you doubt what you and so many others created.  As a "player" though, we need to be just as immersed in the "playing" aspect of the games, as much as we're immersed in the stories, graphics, or music.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 03:52:25 AM by Noalium »

mepwnn

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Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2012, 01:19:12 AM »
I came late and therefore went TL;DR on the four pages, so forgive me if what I mention here has already been discussed:

-I'd kinda like to see multiple endings implemented in some fashion, even if it's just a bad and good end. I feel like bad ends bring out other sides of characters and would add replay value (people who get bad ends want to see good end, and vice versa)
          -If this were to be implemented you could add a move limit on puzzles, and if you go too far over the                                         
            limit, then you get a bad end.

-For some reason, I'd really like to see someone attached to a music box of sorts. DYRML did something similar and it was pretty interesting for some reason.

-Flesh out an element of mistrust between the doctors. I liked how the two bickered about Eva's motives (and honestly made Eva look like a b****), and I'd love to see more of a lack of trust between Eva and Watts

Once again, if I re-mentioned anything, sorry :P
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Kirroha

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Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2012, 06:16:04 AM »
Quote
they seem like interesting characters, but all we really know is that Nicholas was friends with Johnny since highschool, and at some point he married Isabelle who has asphergers. We barely even know what they look like thanks to that blur on their faces...

Actually, Nicholas isn't married to Isabelle. The latter mentions her husband in the scene where John is working on the house; his name is beyond me as of now, but it wasn't Nick.

His name was Ted.

Unimaginative Username

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Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2012, 02:21:17 PM »
Quote
they seem like interesting characters, but all we really know is that Nicholas was friends with Johnny since highschool, and at some point he married Isabelle who has asphergers. We barely even know what they look like thanks to that blur on their faces...

Actually, Nicholas isn't married to Isabelle. The latter mentions her husband in the scene where John is working on the house; his name is beyond me as of now, but it wasn't Nick.

I didn't even notice this and I have played through a couple of times.

I came late and therefore went TL;DR on the four pages, so forgive me if what I mention here has already been discussed:

-I'd kinda like to see multiple endings implemented in some fashion, even if it's just a bad and good end. I feel like bad ends bring out other sides of characters and would add replay value (people who get bad ends want to see good end, and vice versa)
          -If this were to be implemented you could add a move limit on puzzles, and if you go too far over the                                         
            limit, then you get a bad end.

This would be quite interesting, I would enjoy that.

« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 02:23:15 PM by The-PurpleOrange »

Tambrelaine

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Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2012, 05:41:03 PM »
You know what I want to see? Some discussion of the mechanics of this miraculous memory-invading and altering machine.
How, for example, are the new memories are actually generated. This was just barely touched on in To the Moon, when Neil and Eva talked about how NASA only appeared as Johnny thought it would. In that sense, are the new memories mostly a story created by the patient? And if so, do they create what they think most likely, or what they want to happen?

Also, I would like to see them deal with a younger patient. Yeah, yeah, it's sad to die young. But with John, because all his friends and his wife were dead, the revelation of his past didn't change anything in his life or the lives of those he loved. The scientists also didn't get any chance to deal with living, breathing humans that might lie about the past or generally be less manageable than memories.

lostn

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Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #54 on: June 01, 2012, 12:29:14 AM »
I would like to see a bigger budget, with more people working on it and higher production values. Or simply make it a visual novel.

I thought the "gamiest" parts of the game were the worst (for example that shooting part towards the end). Don't try to do what it isn't. I also found it annoying that you couldn't just click where you wanted to go, for example an object in the distance. You'd have to walk there first and then click on it, because your character can get stuck in terrain if you don't manually guide him/her.

As a story or "interactive experience" I thought the game was a 9 or a 10, but as a game I thought it was only a 4. The game's engine seems to limit gameplay experiences.

With more people working on it, it will get done quicker as well.

If you begin a Kickstarter, I'm willing to pledge some money into the next game, and I'm sure plenty of people here would as well.

Unimaginative Username

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Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #55 on: June 01, 2012, 04:16:07 AM »
I would like to see a bigger budget, with more people working on it and higher production values. Or simply make it a visual novel.

I don't see how just a bigger budget and more people alone could improve gameplay, personally I think it should be more of an interactive visual novel. This would create certain sections in the game where the player decides what is to be done next, these decisions can then effect the story later on in the game giving these decisions a purpose. Though I would imagine it would be quite a bit of effort to script and then even more to keep cohesion with the episode that follows. But if done right it would definitely be worth it and add some more replying value to the game.


I thought the "gamiest" parts of the game were the worst (for example that shooting part towards the end). Don't try to do what it isn't. I also found it annoying that you couldn't just click where you wanted to go, for example an object in the distance. You'd have to walk there first and then click on it, because your character can get stuck in terrain if you don't manually guide him/her.

I also did not particularly enjoy the zombie part, it seemed fairly unnecessary to me and just quite odd. If it went straight from the moon gazing scene to the part with the fragmented memories and then to the section where Eva says "It has already started" then continues on from there I don't see it being made worse. Though perhaps these scenes would not be broken up enough.


As a story or "interactive experience" I thought the game was a 9 or a 10, but as a game I thought it was only a 4. The game's engine seems to limit gameplay experiences.

I never really saw it as a game, maybe next time there could be an option to opt out of the gameplay elements if the player wishes.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 04:20:11 AM by The-PurpleOrange »

Merlandese

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Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #56 on: June 01, 2012, 03:33:40 PM »
I think the interactivity as a game added more to the experience than you realize. You don't see visual novels getting quite this much acclaim, and I believe the subtle interactive elements are because of that. As a player, you get enveloped into the story moreso because, as you click and move, everything that happens happens to you, rather than with you.

I'd be willing to bet that if you made TtM a visual novel, and got rid of that simple gameplay, it wouldn't be the beautiful experience many are fond of.

Ruben

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Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #57 on: June 01, 2012, 04:24:12 PM »
I beg to differ; while I agree that the interactive elements evoke a feeling of being involved (and being part of the world), I do believe that the reasons a Visual Novel would not be a suitable medium for To The Moon are different. First of all, Visual Novels are much more text-based. But probably more important than that is the while To The Moon could be considered a pixel movie of some kind, Visual Novels usually do not feature movie scenes or anything comparable. Just text, pictures and music.

To The Moon is more like a movie in this regard: There are moving characters, powerful transitions and many different kind of stylistic presentation devices Visual Novels do not use or have. That is the reason why I believe To The Moon is not suited to be a Visual Novel.

But I believe that Visual Novels are a very powerful medium to tell stories. The combination of words, pictures and music set a very good foundation to carry emotions, but other than in movies for example, the reader's imagination is still strongly involved. This is a different kind of attachment to the story: In a game you are part of the story because you are in the game and can interact with its contents. In books and Visual Novels you are part of the story because completely surrounds you once you have reached a state of deep immersion. (Of course this immersion can also be part of the game, but it is usually at least slightly disrupted as soon as the player has the chance to interact again.)

While To The Moon itself would not be a good candidate to be a Visual Novel and while I agree that interaction is an important element, I don't think the missing interaction makes a Visual Novel experience any weaker.

Merlandese

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Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #58 on: June 01, 2012, 04:29:16 PM »
Oh, I didn't mean to bash VNs in any way. I just meant to state that the idea that TtM should either side-step to Visual Novel or movie by ditching the interactive elements is a much more harmful step than they realize. I would argue that the "game" elements, though seemingly out of place by most people, are really one of the reasons the game was "felt" rather than watched like a movie.

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Re: Thoughts/Wishlist for Episode 2
« Reply #59 on: June 01, 2012, 04:58:37 PM »
I have no idea what a visual novel is to be honest, sounds like a book for people with no imagination. What I meant was played like TtM but with game changing events where the person chooses what to do next instead of things like puzzles. That way any 'gameplay' is directly affecting the plot instead of it feeling like filler.