Author Topic: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?  (Read 26323 times)

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Thunderbird

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2011, 04:58:50 PM »
Eating meat is a bit like a barbarian relict of our human culture.

The problem I have with eating meat isn't that much about the fact that you eat them, it is more about the cruel life those animals have to experience in order to do so.
In fact I'm still eating meat, but I do feel uneasy about it. I have to admit I'm already too picky about food so that discarding meat from my menue would give me troubles.

I hate that the common believe that humans are born to be something better most times only is used to claim rights.
This should also go along with a great responsibility.
Even if you believe in a god-given world it's no excuse!
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Just Lance

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2011, 05:14:25 PM »
Doesn't faith in some higher beeing also posiblly count as relic of old times?

I personally eat almost everything what is edible. But still this "meat eating" problem I see as something more like problem of short circuit. Some said that "eating meat is bad" but by stand of our biology we're build to eat meat.
So this problem is more of a will level than actual materialistic.
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Thunderbird

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2011, 08:59:43 PM »
Doesn't faith in some higher beeing also posiblly count as relic of old times?

As in believing literally every word in the bible or something like that. Sure it is.
Otherwise this is still a mystery to mankind, so who knows?

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I personally eat almost everything what is edible. But still this "meat eating" problem I see as something more like problem of short circuit. Some said that "eating meat is bad" but by stand of our biology we're build to eat meat.
So this problem is more of a will level than actual materialistic.

My logic here is the following:
death itself is neither good nor bad, but suffering is bad. Is this something you can agree on?
Animals are able to suffer.

There is no need to argue about anything else - like whether  they have souls or not, just those simple facts are enough.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 01:11:54 PM by Thunderbird »
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Just Lance

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2011, 01:19:21 PM »
Erm... I wasn't refering about bible, BUT in faith in higher beeing.

Suffering is something else. People are naturally bloodthirsty, but they try to cover it.
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Sizzle

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2011, 01:55:24 PM »
Erm... I wasn't refering about bible, BUT in faith in higher beeing.

Suffering is something else. People are naturally bloodthirsty, but they try to cover it.

Very true.
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Ruben

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2011, 03:29:25 PM »
Why do you think that people are naturally bloodthirsty? (Just curious because I don't think this is necessarily the case.)

Just Lance

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2011, 03:32:05 PM »
Because we're predators and

"First human became a human when ape got down from tree picked up a club and smacket other ape over it's head."
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Sizzle

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2011, 04:45:33 PM »
Why do you think that people are naturally bloodthirsty? (Just curious – because I don't think this is necessarily the case.)

It's in our nature to be violent. Why do you think games like Mortal Kombat and Doom were so popular? Blood, violence, etc. Even today, Call Of Duty Black Ops made more money on its launch date then any other form of entertainment media. You could say oh it's because it's challenging, because it's fun, it's not because you're killing. Take killing out of the game and replace is with simply knocking each other out and it wouldn't be anywhere near as popular. I can name tons of different things. UFC, people love it, 2 guys beating the (blank) out of each other. Public executions people actually went to see. Stoning people to death, note that in majority of cases stoning wasn't forced onto the public, it's usually done by freewill. The Colosseums where gladiators fought to the death, which was the biggest form of entertainment in earlier times. This was before society went extreme PG-13, effectively masking our true nature. It's naturally in all people, and it's because before we could sit in our houses in safety from the outside world we were at the mercy of the world around us. At a time when only the strongest survive, violence and blood thirst came hand in hand and it was a valuable tool for survival. This is all my opinion on the matter so don't take it as fact.
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Just Lance

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2011, 04:50:50 PM »
Not to mention things like MMA.
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Merlandese

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2011, 05:25:53 PM »
Why do you think that people are naturally bloodthirsty? (Just curious because I don't think this is necessarily the case.)

It's in our nature to be violent. Why do you think games like Mortal Kombat and Doom were so popular? Blood, violence, etc. Even today, Call Of Duty Black Ops made more money on its launch date then any other form of entertainment media. You could say oh it's because it's challenging, because it's fun, it's not because you're killing. Take killing out of the game and replace is with simply knocking each other out and it wouldn't be anywhere near as popular. I can name tons of different things. UFC, people love it, 2 guys beating the (blank) out of each other. Public executions people actually went to see. Stoning people to death, note that in majority of cases stoning wasn't forced onto the public, it's usually done by freewill. The Colosseums where gladiators fought to the death, which was the biggest form of entertainment in earlier times. This was before society went extreme PG-13, effectively masking our true nature. It's naturally in all people, and it's because before we could sit in our houses in safety from the outside world we were at the mercy of the world around us. At a time when only the strongest survive, violence and blood thirst came hand in hand and it was a valuable tool for survival. This is all my opinion on the matter so don't take it as fact.

I agree, especially that humanity was built around the inclination of strength for survival. It's the common code that connects us to animals. Realizing this, it should be apparent that civilization is actually the departure from animalism--that we purposefully regard animal urges as negative, such as mens' urge to reproduce. We've been attempting to replace wars with diplomacy, even though war is in our nature and diplomacy is not. Civilization, technology, communication, rationalization--all of these spawn from the same ideas that try to prevent the consumption of animals, because, like war, we realize that consuming animals isn't civilized, but a part of our base nature. Meat consumption is anachronistic, maybe even a tradition, but all it really does is stifle the progress of humanity, focusing on our animal instincts rather than our "human" ability to think and create (and make video games that are marketed toward those animal instincts, because thinking is hard and marketers take advantage of that.)

Ruben

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2011, 10:14:28 AM »
I understand what you all want to say, but I disagree nevertheless.

The word "bloodthirsty" implies that we have fun hurting others just for the purpose of seeing someone being hurt. Personally, I think the standard human in every stage of evolution was not like that. Fighting and killing for the purpose of surviving is something different. Even the rich people who watched fights in Colosseums more than two thousand years ago did not seem to do this because they were bloodthirsty, but rather because they wanted to see very extreme battles and because it was a social event, just like today when people go and watch sport competitions. The people who had fun watching the Colosseum fights did not seem to be interested in hurting the slaves etc. themselves although they had any chance to do it.

There are, of course, people with mental disorders who have fun controlling and hurting others, but I believe these people are the exception, not the rule. I have never heard of an animal that hurts/kills just for fun, either.

Therefore I think it is a cliche that humans are naturally bloodthirsty. Some are, many are not, but I don't think, they are bloodthirsty by nature.

Thunderbird

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2011, 12:43:41 PM »
I think they are more thirsty for might/influence.
Violence to climb up the social ladder or defend your position is normal for quite some animals.
So I would rather say humans are mightthirsty by nature.
Even if you are nothing more than a drop in a bucket...
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Merlandese

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2011, 05:10:59 PM »
That's great, Thunderbird! I've heard of the term power-hungry before, but never might-thirsty! XD I could live with that explanation, though. I think dominance is a part of many human and animal cultures.

... I have never heard of an animal that hurts/kills just for fun, either.

@Squall: I have heard that cats (including large cats) are some of the only non-human animals that kill for fun, though only through hearsay. If anyone can support that claim, be welcome. Even so, that lends to your point since one category of animals out of millions is only an exception.

Ruben

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2011, 04:33:43 PM »
Predatory cats (or predatory animals in general) have a hunting instinct / the urge to hunt. I think that is why they appear to kill smaller animals "for fun". At least that's what I found after a bit of research.

(There's an intersting book about the topic in general, by the way. It's called "The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness" by the social psychologist, psychoanalyst and humanistic philosopher Erich Fromm. I have read two of Erich Fromm's books by now and find them very intersting and inspiring. Haven't read "Anatomy of Human Destructiveness" yet, but maybe sometimes in the future.)
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 04:42:55 PM by Squall »

EgotisticalRaven

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2013, 09:36:22 AM »
I'm a bit late here, but this topic is so much fun!  :vikonsmile:
I am a vegetarian, but that is irrelevent to the topic. I am a vegetarian because I've been looking into what the natives believed, from what I have read the natives ate meat from animals, but they would use all the parts of the animal (So it wouldn't go to waste) and not to mention they had complete respect for the animals they ate. I have not yet contemplated this thoery enough, thus I don't think it's right for me to eat animals (At this point in my life).
Also I have read from the philosopher Kahlil Gibran, he did a book called The Prophet, this book was about a prohet who came to a village to talk to the people there. He talked about many things, Love, marriage, death, etc. But one thing he talked about was food.
He didn't just talk about eating meat, he talked about eating anything, because everything has life in it, or at least HAD life....

"Would that you could live on the fragrance of the earth, and like an air plant be sustained by the light.
      But since you must kill to eat, and rob the young of its mother's milk to quench your thirst, let it then be an act of worship,
      And let your board stand an altar on which the pure and the innocent of forest and plain are sacrificed for that which is purer and still more innocent in many.
      When you kill a beast say to him in your heart,
      'By the same power that slays you, I to am slain; and I too shall be consumed.
      For the law that delivered you into my hand shall deliver me into a mightier hand.
 Your blood and my blood is naught but the sap that feeds the tree of heaven.'
 And when you crush an apple with your teeth, say to it in your heart,
      'Your seeds shall live in my body,
      And the buds of your tomorrow shall blossom in my heart,
      And your fragrance shall be my breath, And together we shall rejoice through all the seasons.'
      And in the autumn, when you gather the grapes of your vineyard for the winepress, say in you heart, 'I to am a vineyard, and my fruit shall be gathered for the winepress,
      And like new wine I shall be kept in eternal vessels.'
      And in winter, when you draw the wine, let there be in your heart a song for each cup;
      And let there be in the song a remembrance for the autumn days, and for the vineyard, and for the winepress."

This is the full paragraph from the part about eating and drinking. It shows a veiw that I haven't seen in this topic, the veiw that it is holy and pure to eat animals and plants. This veiw is also diffrent because it doesn't rely on facts to convince you. This is also just a little bit of my opinion about the topic, I could write half a book about my opinion on eating meat, but alas, no one would read it....  :nds:
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 06:48:53 AM by PoisonRabbit »
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