Author Topic: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?  (Read 27623 times)

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Ruben

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Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« on: April 20, 2010, 05:18:05 PM »
Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?

An simple question, yet controverse. What do you think about this? Why do or don't we have the right to kill and eat animals?

Muffin

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2010, 05:22:14 PM »
Yeah we do. If we kill them in order to eat of course, killing with no reason at all is stupid.
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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2010, 05:26:36 PM »
Sure, why not? Animals kill each other, and we were made higher than the animals, and given the right by God to rule over, kill, and eat animals. I don't see a problem with it.

Ruben

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2010, 05:31:35 PM »
Yeah we do. If we kill them in order to eat of course, killing with no reason at all is stupid.

We do not need to eat them. We can live without eating meat and it is not even unhealthier. Besides, the average inhabitant of an industrial nation eats more meat than it is healthy.

Quote from: Vasha
Sure, why not? Animals kill each other, and we were made higher than the animals, and given the right by God to rule over, kill, and eat animals. I don't see a problem with it.
I don't believe in god, but that is not the point. What do you think about killing or torture animals without any reason - makes that a difference?

Vasha

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2010, 06:00:48 PM »
Torture of animals isn't a good thing, cuz, well it just ain't right (sorry, i thought i had a reason... but it skipped my mind!), but killing them is fine.

and yes, i am biased, because i love meat and if possible i would love to be a carnivore

Sushi

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2010, 06:11:08 PM »
I'd like to see this proof that vegetarianism/veganism is healthier, 'cause it sure doesn't seem like it to me. .___.

And killing without reason isn't fine, nor is torture. But killing for food is. Even disregarding the higher nature of humans/given right by God, other animals kill other animals. So why can't humans kill animals? It's the natural order of things.
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Vasha

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2010, 06:26:22 PM »
I'd like to see this proof that vegetarianism/veganism is healthier, 'cause it sure doesn't seem like it to me. .___.

i'm pretty sure he said that it isn't healthier:
We do not need to eat them. We can live without eating meat and it is not even unhealthier. Besides, the average inhabitant of an industrial nation eats more meat than it is healthy.

he just said that it's not unhealthier to be a vegetarian

other animals kill other animals. So why can't humans kill animals? It's the natural order of things.

i brought up that point as well

Sushi

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2010, 06:34:10 PM »
Ah. Well, I'd still like to see some articles on how it isn't unhealthy for you.
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Ruben

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2010, 07:02:02 PM »
and yes, i am biased, because i love meat and if possible i would love to be a carnivore
I enjoy(ed) eating meat, too, but I realized that it was not the right thing to do (in my opinion) so now I am living as an vegetarian,

Quote from: Sushi
I'd like to see this proof that vegetarianism/veganism is healthier, 'cause it sure doesn't seem like it to me. .___.
Roughly translated by me and written by someone who knows this stuff:

I'm living a healthy life without meat, fish etc. for 30 year.  My four children grew up without meat and fish and they are fit and very healthy. It is unnecessary to kill animals because we can live without it. Without meat consumption, there would be much less environmental and climate damage. Hunger would be no problem anymore.
If you would take all the cereal harvested in 2007 and give it to all people, everyone would get more than 1 KILOGRAM A DAY. Fruits and vegetables not even calculated.
It is a fairy tale that meat is healthy. Meat is amongst others responsible for most illnesses in our society because humans actually are no carnivores. The consumption of meat produces great amounts of uric acid. Carnivores can digest this with the enzyme Uricase. Humans do not have this enzyme and consequently they cannot digest only a fractional amount of it, the rest is deposited in the body and may result in gout and rheumatism and general hyperacidity.
The protein maintenance is not a problem at all, neither for vegetarians nor for vegans. The only problem might be vitamin B12, however no animal can produce it by itself, not even herbivores. Where do we get vitamin B12 from, then?  First, we get it from microorganisms that ingest the vitamin when they eat.  Secondly, in the bowel of the humans there are bacteria that produce it if the intestinal flora is alright (which it is only with raw vegetables). Medical scientists claim, however, that this happens in the large intestine where the produced B12 cannot be ingested. As always there are different opinions again. But it is fact that even vegetarians are rarely lacking B12 if they nourish adequate and varied. As a matter of fact, people who eat meat are lacking vitamin B12 more often.


Conclusion: Every vegetarian increases the national health, disburdens the health insurance funds and the climate and decreases the suffering of the animals. And in return he mostly lives healthier and gets sick fewer.

Manfred

Quote from: Sushi
And killing without reason isn't fine, nor is torture. But killing for food is.
Food we don't need. Is killing other humans for food fine? The Aztec's (there are many others examples) did this and couldn't understand that the Spanish were averse to this.

Quote
Even disregarding the higher nature of humans/given right by God, other animals kill other animals. So why can't humans kill animals?

Because we don't need to. We don't even have a real benefit from this (besides the pleasure of eating.

Quote
It's the natural order of things.
I always hear that, but what is our true nature? It is a poor excuse.. We have distanced from our so-called nature too much to say that we do some things because of our nature. We eat meat for pleasure, not because we really need it or because it is our nature.
And the 'nature' doesn't make things right necessarily. It could as well be our nature to eat or to kill one another in certain situation (for oneselves benefit).



By the way, I'm living vegetarian and feel great. Haven't been sick since I live that way, either.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 07:04:01 PM by Squall »

Vasha

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2010, 09:05:27 PM »
1) how long has this been? could it just be a coincidence/do you usually get sick in this amount of time?

2) and killing humans for meat is immoral... it's murder! animals are different: they don't have souls (sorry, gettin' into theology again), and they're lower lifeforms.

3) okay, so you're arguing against meat-eating pretty much, right? explain? we're trying to say why we think it's fine, why do you think it's not fine? (besides the fact that we 'don't need it.' there's a lot of stuff that we do that we don't need...)

mepwnn

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2010, 10:32:49 PM »
Unless you want to eat all that processed stuff in cereal, then you're going to be short on protein. Sure, meat is unhealthy if you eat too much, but you need the protein, and it's not really good if you eat it with the processed stuff (I eat organic)
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Raxus

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2010, 11:51:13 PM »
Animals eat other animals, we are animals, so we can do the same.

Vasha

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2010, 12:19:35 AM »
"we are animals"? wow, that's... a rather lowering view of humanity (thought not the current topic)

mepwnn

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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2010, 12:21:42 AM »
but it is true, humans are animals. We may be more intelligent than other primates, but we're still, sadly, primates
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Re: Do we have the right to kill/eat animals?
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2010, 03:58:55 AM »
Why do we have the right to eat/kill animals?
1. Eating some animals is part of the food chain. We are the consumers, and we cannot be producers. We are the heterotrophs.

2. Killing animals is needed for human survival. We have to slay some animals to be able to get some fur/other materials that humans need, such as clothes, etc. We are the predators, they are the prey.

3. There are some nutrients present in animals, but absent in vegetables. Vice versa.

4. For scientific learning and discovery, such as animal dissection, and others.

But also take note of the following:
1. Hunting is the second major cause of animal extinction. From the earliest days, human beings have been hunters, thus predators. They nearly wiped out the buffalo, killed birds for feathers to decorate hats, shot the big cats to make fur coats, and slaughtered alligators for shoes and bags.

2. Each living thing is unique and carries within its own secrets of life. It is unlike any other species. All species are important in the total ecology. If anyone is lost, the whole natural environment changes. Some people see a warning to human beings in the disappearance of many living things.

3. "Human beings must develop a concern for wildlife creatures and a determination that these will not perish. Then, we just might save some from joining the dodo and other extinct species. And in the process, we also save ourselves." ~George Laycock

4.  Human beings speeded up the time table Pandas, whales, tigers, alligators, eagles, and wolves are all faced with the threat of extinction today. How have human being been able to make life impossible for so many wild creatures in so short a time? These are the three principal ways: loss of habitat, hunting, widespread use of chemicals (this is adapted from Senior Scholastic)

5. To satisfy man's basic needs stands the reason. To oversatisfy the self is just being selfish.


@Vasha: Since we have hair, we are mammals, thus animals.

In a nutshell: The right meal/proper meals is better than sticking whole-heartedly to vegetables or to animals.