Author Topic: Gay Marriage  (Read 30283 times)

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hikari_rekka

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2009, 11:45:58 PM »
I don't see anything wrong with homosexuality and I don't really understand why people make a big deal over who can and cannot get married. It's not like they rub in the fact that they're gay. (Y'see, my sister is friends with gays and she didn't find out until someone else told them) So, I think gay marriage should be legal and that people should realize that if they don't like it, they shouldn't bother.
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xAvaRenx

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2009, 11:22:42 PM »
Speaking of which... I think June is Gay Pride month.
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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2009, 06:50:57 AM »
The reason why this issue became contriversal to start with was because it was illegal till around a few years ago, and say 50 years ago any form would be considered illegal. The reason why this was, was because it went against the rules of the Church, whereby most laws derived from.

I'm not against the church, but I do believe that homosexuality is not a crime, and should never be. This is because it is not anywhere near the scale of murder, it is merely just a form of relationship, whereby both people are prepared to go through with, similar to a normal marrage. Since my country used to be founded on Church beliefs, I think that is why it took so long to be legalised. 

Just Lance

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2009, 09:18:07 AM »
Well. I'm positive to gay marriage. I know one or two of them. And they told me that about two years of known each other. But if they don't bother me with it :D
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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2009, 08:01:25 AM »
I find it funny that I wrote an anti-homophobia rant on dA a few days ago. If you understood my last sentence, then yes, I am pro-gay marriage. I don't really see the big deal people make out of homosexuals. The religious extremists are spitting out "IT'S AGAINST GOD AND HE HATES GAYS LOL!"

People can't force people to not be gay just by making the marriage illegal. It's not like they flicked the gay switch on purpose. 'Sides, I believe that everyone is bisexual, they just lean more towards on preference. I mean, come on, you've had to at least think one homosexual thought.

abigailian

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2009, 09:55:04 AM »
'Sides, I believe that everyone is bisexual, they just lean more towards on preference. I mean, come on, you've had to at least think one homosexual thought.

Lol, I think that's mostly true, especially for girls (And yes, I'm admitting to having homosexual thoughts on occasion). Guys I think are much more likely to just be gay or straight, unless they're in their teenage years. (I guess the hormones at this point practically make them want to have sex with anything that moves).

However, the justification for an action should never simply be that it started as a desire. Most of the defenses of homosexual sex (homosex, from now on, if you will) are that there is a legitimate reason for the desire (like they were born that way, or animals do it). It doesn't matter how the desire started! What matters is the effect it has and what you do with it.

Here's part of the reason I've come to the conclusion about correct sexuality is the facts about compatibility. Let's face it, women and men are made to have romantic relationships and sex with each other. Obviously anatomically (male homosex, in particular, can be very dangerous), but even mentally, men and women have an easier job of having romantic relationships with each other. In the case of male homosexuality, it's very difficult for partners to remain monogamous (indeed, many people argue that if gay marriage becomes legal, we really shouldn't even expect husbands to remain faithful). While lesbian relationships are usually monogamous, they generally don't last more than a few years. Women are famously demanding in romantic relationships, so imagine that cutting both ways, and the arguments and misunderstandings associated! All that has led me to a very firm belief that heterosexual relationships are far preferable to homosexual ones.

Now, this is where religion or personal opinion come in, at least right now when we don't really have a whole lot of data. Does the fact that homosex and homosexual relationships aren't ideal make them necessarily wrong? Obviously not. None of my relationships will ever be ideal, but that doesn't mean they won't be a net benefit to me and the people around me. However, even as homosexuality has become more and more accepted in western culture, we still have very high rates of suicide (which haven't come down very far), and in places where gay marriage has been legal for a long time, the divorce rates are astronomical, much higher than heterosexual marriages. I don't know if they've ever done any studies on celibate gays (or if there's even a segment of celibate gays large enough to study) but it seems to me that, even despite the loneliness, it's the better option.

And by the way, God LOVES gays (he loves me, anyway, and I've done just as much crap as any gay or lesbian has, if not more). Anyone who says any differently has supplanted a love for God with religion.
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Candide

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2009, 07:53:19 AM »
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Women are famously demanding in romantic relationships, so imagine that cutting both ways, and the arguments and misunderstandings associated! All that has led me to a very firm belief that heterosexual relationships are far preferable to homosexual ones.

Um! But not all women are exactly demanding though. Man that's a weak statement.

Well in homosexual relationships, there isn't much misunderstanding like women troubles (.) or some kinda weird male things. I dunno. Homosex (I dunno why that makes me inwardly giggle) between two men doesn't really have to be like how people think of the homosexual version of heterosex. There are other ways, y'know, and having a homosexual relationship doesn't really mean they must have sex.

And if they absolutely must, well both people know what makes their partner happy :|

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abigailian

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2009, 05:44:39 PM »
I think I follow that, but what I'm saying is it seems to me there are some reasons why homosexual relationships INHERENTLY cannot be as compatible as heterosexual relationships. I've never seen anyone able to come along and make reasons as to why they are better in some ways. The best they can do is argue that they're the same, and in my view, that seems absolutely ridiculous. Men and women relate differently to each other, regardless of sexual orientation.

(Homosex sounds funny to me, too :P, and I never used it again, anyway, lol) The idea of starting a romantic relationship with no goal whatsoever of perhaps eventually having sex strikes me as very strange. If two people start a romantic relationship, meaning it to last forever, and (absent any reasons making it either impossible or unpleasant to have sex) desire to remain celibate, I don't see how that arrangement could possibly last very long. The whole reason they're together is because they find each other attractive on (hopefully) several levels.

I understand that women aren't all demanding (that was a poor choice of words). But women are wired differently than men, and lesbian relationships certainly have some struggles that relationships between gay men have no problem with, and which are much less prevalent in heterosexual relationships.
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Reives

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2009, 05:53:32 PM »
@Abi:
(Lol, that's the first time I've heard that word being used.)

Seems to me like your points don't necessarily press against the matter of marriage itself, though, but rather how it's not (as?) compatible in nature. A lack of an official marriage stamp doesn't prohibit them from having sexual relationships (in fact, from what I've heard from my most valued news source of stand-up comedy, marriage = less sex!). Same thing with living together; marriage or not does not prohibit that either way.

abigailian

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2009, 06:03:59 PM »
Yeah, thanks for being on topic. The reason it's related, though, is do you really want to encourage something that is not beneficial and perhaps even harmful? I don't think there's any reason to. I don't see any benefit to society or even individuals. I think it's sad when I hear stories of people who weren't allowed to see the person they loved in the hospital before they died, but I wonder if there's another way to work out some of those sorts of issues. I'd rather not encourage civil unions, either, but I'd rather see that be the case before we call what they have 'marriage.'
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Reives

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2009, 06:58:05 PM »
Oh, that didn't even come across my mind since I was under the impression that sexual preferences isn't something that a person sits down and go "hm, so should I be straight or gay?" about, and hence "encouraging" or "discouraging" it wouldn't have a point, except to make those who are feel miserable.

That's pretty much one of those foundational belief kind of things that vary from person to person though. But from what I've seen, more or less all homosexuals seem to acknowledge that it was not a choice.

abigailian

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2009, 07:23:13 PM »
No, and I certainly don't believe that (at least for the VAST majority) of homosexuals/bisexuals, that the preference is a choice. But who you choose to have a relationship with/get married to is. Plus, there's nothing really in it for the government to endorse such relationships. (It's also probably not worth anyone's time to put up a huge fuss about it the other way. If enough people want it, and the general population is fine with it, and gets legalized the right way, I don't have a huge problem with it.)
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Reives

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2009, 07:28:05 PM »
But who you choose to have a relationship with/get married to is.
I'm not sure if I'm understanding it correctly, but does that mean that it's a valid suggestion for homosexuals to get married to partners of the opposite sex despite being against their nature?

I think the "if enough people want it" is more or less passed by 100% of the homosexual population, so the problem is whether or not the rest of the population is fine with it.

Annnd back to square one. :P

abigailian

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2009, 07:45:25 PM »
I'm not sure if I'm understanding it correctly, but does that mean that it's a valid suggestion for homosexuals to get married to partners of the opposite sex despite being against their nature?

Okay, what I was getting at with this is that the government gives incentives for people to get married. I don't think this is something homosexual couples should be eligible for, since I don't see how they benefit society. I don't necessarily think we should DISCOURAGE it (i.e. criminalizing homosex) because I think people should generally be able to make their own decisions, good or bad, so long as they're only hurting themselves. (I know this is rather vague, but it seems like a good starting point, anyway.)

And I don't think people should be forced to marry someone they have no interest in, either. I don't see how if you're only interested in people that it would be inappropriate to have a relationship with, why is celibacy not a valid option?

I think the "if enough people want it" is more or less passed by 100% of the homosexual population, so the problem is whether or not the rest of the population is fine with it.

You'd actually be surprised. Not all homsexuals support it, and many do simply because they advocate 'equal rights,' and not because they ever plan on using the  institution. For instance, in Europe where it's been legal for a while now, not many gay couples actually get married.
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Reives

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2009, 08:34:03 PM »
Okay, what I was getting at with this is that the government gives incentives the freedom of choice for people to get married.
Corrected. :P

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I don't necessarily think we should DISCOURAGE it (i.e. criminalizing homosex) because I think people should generally be able to make their own decisions, good or bad, so long as they're only hurting themselves.
But doesn't that contradict with the fact that you just acknowledged that being homosexual is not a "decision" that the vast majority of homosexuals could make / have made?