Author Topic: Gay Marriage  (Read 32431 times)

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Merlandese

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #120 on: September 26, 2012, 11:09:59 PM »
Yeah, no one's wrong here.

As for sexuality being considered for marriage, then why is it that I never heard it called "straight/heterosexual marriage"? seems like it should've been there if sexuality was such a crucial part of the contract.

Not every aspect of a definition, I would argue, needs to be represented in the word. Marriage didn't need to be called Straight Marriage when it was first coming out because homosexuality wasn't a consideration. A good example is drunk driving. Why didn't they call non-drunk driving "sober driving" if being sober was such a big part of it? All that's a minor point either way, though.

What you describe as the worthier fight is just submitting to bigotry. You can do 1 little thing that solves all these issues (just give'em marriage and call it a day) OR you can individually start changing everything so you can circumvent the trouble of doing that one effortless thing. And the reason to go through all this trouble? Still waiting to hear a good one :P

For the sake of easiness? I mean, whenever I hear a good point as to why gay people should want marriage, I don't think we should just take the easy route and give it to them. That's such a short term fix, in my opinion. What's wrong with seeing that the system is messed up, unfairly distributing benefits to a group that, by its original definition, is discriminatory, and trying to fix it?

You may see all these problems as a let-them-be-married fix, but I don't. I see them as a the-government-unfairly-intervened-with-a-system-that-had-nothing-to-do-with-it problem and now everyone would rather submit to the error than fix it.

I like the idea that gay people can have all of these rights for sure, just like I like the idea of someone like me who thinks neither the government nor religion have any business in  my lovelife should have those benefits. But that doesn't mean everyone should barge into this system just for these benefits. Rather than be separated on this trivial issue of marriage, we should all agree that things like seeing a loved one in the hospital should be re-thought to a point that we can all be happy, married, gay, straight, or otherwise.

Gay marriage has brought up some marvelous issues with the system that we can either struggle to correct, or ignore by letting some more people use them. The second option is sloppy, the easy way out, and disregards the intentions of the admittedly bigoted people who founded that system. I don't like the KKK either, you know, but they are still a legally approved community to the U.S. government. They have that right.

That's why it's such a useless fight to me. Like I said before, rather than beat a broken system, they're trying to join it. It's an easy way out.

For the record, I think it's stupid that gays aren't allowed to marry, but the fact is that they aren't. So I also think it's stupid that they want to marry, because, unlike black oppression or female oppression, the sanctity of marriage isn't inherently oppressive to those who aren't married. People don't get married to make gay people feel bad, yet it's being treated like it's the gay version of slavery.

Merlandese

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #121 on: September 26, 2012, 11:36:45 PM »
Man, now I feel like I'm dragging this out, but I'd like to post a link to a gay person against gay marriage. He has a blog which says a lot of things that, if you can't believe me as a straight guy, are still real enough concerns that some gay people think the fight is pointless (despite its inevitability, IMO).


http://nogaymarriage.wordpress.com/

Quote
I don’t understand the reasoning behind the suggestion that civil unions or some other marriage equivalent, with all the benefits of traditional legal marriage, are somehow not good enough. Olbermann seems to be saying that it is only the exact legal label applied to heterosexual unions — actual “marriage” — that will do. But why? What is the reason that it’s not good enough?


This is how it can not be called "gay marriage" but accomplish the same thing. I guess it's just how you perceive it. *shrugs*
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 11:41:01 PM by Merlandese »

Ferdk

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #122 on: September 27, 2012, 12:12:02 AM »
Well if they have the rights I'm good. I guess its a 2-step issue, one is the rights, once you solved that, then the next issue (which doesn't really try to downplay the merit of the first one being solved) is why does it need a new label when there's a perfectly working legal term for it. Sure it happens to be  the same  term used by most religions but so what? if we call them "civil unions" then wouldn't that mean heterosexual couples also get civil unions and not marriages? what's the point of having two labels for the same thing?

The protest to this is that it is marginalization of some kind. You are making a disctinction on a group for a right that is the same one (and if it isn't, then its back to problem 1, which is everyone should have the same rights). Its not as big of a deal as getting the rights themselves, sure. That's why I said its a 2-step issue, the first and important step is the rights they deserve. After that, then when you label a group for no reason then you get a new issue which is discrimination. As I said this is not as big of an issue and I personally, if I were gay, wouldn't really have a problem with it, as long as my rights are respected like everyone else. But some people do care about stuff like this. And they're right, though I agree its kind of a waste of time to fight for a word.
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Merlandese

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #123 on: September 27, 2012, 12:28:07 AM »
I don't think it's marginalization, at least in the unfair "negative" sense of the word.

And I also don't think that the separation of peoples' group individuality (oxymoron) is automatically discrimination. I have no interest in worldwide homogeneity, and neither do the people who say they are Irish without having taken a step outside of Canada. They like the uniqueness just fine, which is what begets pride in heredity and ancestry. Why is a unique label such a negative thing in this particular sense? No shame in a civil union.

And the word "right" just seems so wrong in this case. We all have rights, but that doesn't mean there aren't restrictions. Not everyone is allowed to do everything. I personally am not allowed to go into the ladies' restroom, yet I feel like I have rights just fine.

I don't think any of us really have that much personal stake in the topic, which is probably best. So I'll leave it with this gay guy's quote. I may not know what the fuss is all about, but surely he has a clue.

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In closing, nobody needs state-recognized marriage for any reason at all. All the arrangements of marriage can be duplicated with contracts, and you do not have to choose the one-size-fits-all bundle that marriage forces upon couples. Even if gay couples do want that bundle, civil unions with the exact same provisions as legal marriage should be good enough for those not so desperate for society’s moral approval.

I do not need the state to recognize my love, thanks Keith. Now I’d like at least all heterosexuals, if not their loudmouth gay friends, to shut the hell up on the matter. It does not impress me that you have compassion for gay people; I simply do not think you are a mouthbreathing dingbat for finding anything at all wrong with homosexual behavior. That’s the expected default, get it? Now stop trying to force your oppressive, frilly, and boring traditional institutions meant to ensure monogamy on my hot, promiscuous, anonymous gay sex.

Ferdk

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #124 on: September 27, 2012, 09:28:48 AM »
Oh, I agree with you, to me it isn't that much of an issue. Just like calling a black person black isn't racism. But some people do get all emotional over it. But now that I think about it I usually b*tch about that so I guess I'm being hypocritical :P

PS: That quoted guy just had to mention gay sex... -__- nice image to start off the day xD
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Cornelius

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #125 on: September 30, 2012, 05:18:35 AM »
If people want to have an imaginary friend, it's fine with me. I just don't want them to shove it down our throats.

Gay Lolcat ^^: "I can haz marriagez0r plz?"
Biblical Bigot: "My imaginary friend says NO!"

I'm going to change some words from the common biblistic homophobic arguments.
This should show how flawed those bigots logic really is:

Americans can't marry, cuz it says so in the Quran, and the Quran is Allah's words. You should really go die instead. Kthxbai!

(No hate intended towards muslims, I just needed to show the biblistic bigots their logic, used for something they disagree with. Thank you for the understanding.)
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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #126 on: September 30, 2012, 08:26:38 AM »
If people want to have an imaginary friend, it's fine with me. I just don't want them to shove it down our throats.

Gay Lolcat ^^: "I can haz marriagez0r plz?"
Biblical Bigot: "My imaginary friend says NO!"

I'm going to change some words from the common biblistic homophobic arguments.
This should show how flawed those bigots logic really is:

Americans can't marry, cuz it says so in the Quran, and the Quran is Allah's words. You should really go die instead. Kthxbai!

(No hate intended towards muslims, I just needed to show the biblistic bigots their logic, used for something they disagree with. Thank you for the understanding.)

Well that was remarkable offensive to quite a few different groups of people :\

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #127 on: September 30, 2012, 12:38:29 PM »
^All groups of people tend to get offensive at one another, simply because they're don't wholly agree on something (bring that up and it's an instant flame war).

On-topic: I thought this thread pretty much ended at "let's not -cuss- with other people's matters".

Judedeath

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #128 on: September 30, 2012, 04:55:30 PM »
^All groups of people tend to get offensive at one another, simply because they're don't wholly agree on something (bring that up and it's an instant flame war).

On-topic: I thought this thread pretty much ended at "let's not -cuss- with other people's matters".

I thought it ended with a marriage is stupid and nobody  should have it.
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Merlandese

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #129 on: September 30, 2012, 05:00:25 PM »
^All groups of people tend to get offensive at one another, simply because they're don't wholly agree on something (bring that up and it's an instant flame war).

On-topic: I thought this thread pretty much ended at "let's not -cuss- with other people's matters".

I thought it ended with a marriage is stupid and nobody  should have it.

That's how I ended it. :p

Ferdk

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #130 on: October 01, 2012, 12:10:51 PM »
Merlan is like the grinch of marriage/family?
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Dr. Zooks McCoy

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #131 on: October 01, 2012, 01:19:20 PM »
The Grinch put a hand to his ear. And he did hear a sound rising over the snow.
It started in low. Then it started to grow...

But the sound wasn't sad! Why, this sound sounded merry!
It couldn't be so! But it WAS merry! VERY!

Every bride and groom at their weddings, the tall and the small,
Was singing "here comes the bride"! Without any marriage rights at all!
He HADN'T stopped marriage from coming!
IT CAME!
Somehow or other, it came just the same!

Merlandese

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #132 on: October 01, 2012, 05:07:17 PM »
Hahaha!

How could it be so?

It came without ribbons!... it came without tags!... it came without benefits, tax cuts, or flags!

It came without contracts, approval or cake! It came without blessings? That's quite the mistake!

Turns out that marriage could be worth the while! A handshake the cake, the contract a smile.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 05:13:02 PM by Merlandese »

Dr. Zooks McCoy

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #133 on: October 01, 2012, 07:52:38 PM »
I lost it at "benefits, tax cuts, or flags!" XD

And what happened then...? Well...in America, they say
That the Grinch's small brain grew three sizes that day!
And the second his conscience was set at ease,
He ran off and became a justice of the peace,
And he handed out flowers and champagne, and then-
He, ...HE HIMSELF...!
The Grinch married two men.

Merlandese

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Re: Gay Marriage
« Reply #134 on: October 01, 2012, 07:55:52 PM »
Bwahaha!!! What a perfectly brilliant ending!