Author Topic: International sanctions  (Read 2861 times)

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atommo

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International sanctions
« on: July 31, 2014, 11:43:45 AM »
This is to do with the sanctions against Russia & other countries. Do you agree with them? Do you think some countries should get sanctions that currently do not?

Personally, I feel that they affect too many, including those that are not or do not want to be involved in those situations. The sanctions against Russia are mainly to make the Russian government stop supporting the pro-russian rebels in Ukraine, but it could go the other way and potentially end up as a much wider conflict, due to Russian civilians being angry that they are getting affected yet they weren't necessarily the ones that chose to support the rebels in Ukraine.

The US is wanting more sanctions against Russia because the rebels in Ukraine are thought to have shot down a civilian airliner accidentally using Russian-supplied equipment. It would also be understandable if Russians were angry at America because the US supplied Israel with missiles that are being used to kill civilians in Gaza, yet no sanctions are being taken against them.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Thats just how I feel anyway. I'd be interested to see if you agree or differ from my opinion. I'd also be interested to hear what you'd use as punishment instead of international sanctions if you had the choice.
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Just Lance

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Re: International sanctions
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2014, 04:30:31 PM »
The problem is that in Gaza the Hamaz hides behind civilians... They use Civilians as a shield... They also fired missiles after a declaration of ceasefire. If you think that is okay... Well I do not.
I would not try to compare what is going on in Ukraine to what went down in Gaza. Gaza and Israel-islamic relationship are quite complex to understand while in Ukraine it is a civil war at "it's finest" that started with the unrest because of government decisions and Russian armed and unmarked forces moving to the area (itself being in violation of the Geneva conventions).
The sanctions might be just a first step the problem is that it is hard to predict what will go down next in Ukraine and the Separatist how sure have bad image. They were messaging around net about shooting down an army cargo plane before it came out it was a civilian plane (then those messages disappeared but they were already archived by people)  and before that they were bragging about having a functional Buk missile system (which is impossible to operate without trained crew so either a deserter of Ukraine military or someone from Russia) this system was also seen soon after shooting down that plane in a vicinity, on a road heading for Russian border. The standard altitude for a civilian flight is if I remember correctly 10 kilometres. Buk has range of around 140 km and max Altitude of 25 km. Government forces did not had any such heavy AA gear in the area because the rebels don't have planes that would require such systems employed... The Government forces on the other hand.... Also the government forces would be informed of that plane being a civilian.
So yeah I get some Russians may be angry... It's what you get for electing an ex-KGB officer who was notorious for things like sending remains to relatives via post... He might be adored by many but there is also a lot of people that would not agree with him.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 04:32:44 PM by Just Lance »
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atommo

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Re: International sanctions
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2014, 05:11:52 PM »
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I disagree with both Israel and Hamas. The conflict should never have happened.

I guess my main point was I was angry that civilians were being involved in things that they shouldn't be. The sanctions are an example of that.

Ofcourse, The Gaza/Israel conflict is a more powerful example, since the conflict between governments is causing civilian deaths. If you were to make a country and moved the Isreali and Palestinian citizens there, and leave the governments behind, you wonder if how strong the prospect of peace would be in that new country. Then again, I'm sure that you could apply that to the majority of countries in the world.

Its like the governments of the world are in their own little game, with civilians as their playing pieces. Whenever the UN tries to punish Putin through sanctions, the civilians are the ones that are hit the hardest.

I don't really know much about the Ukraine conflict, apart from what I've already mentioned so I may have jumped to some conclusions there too quickly.

I guess if there's one thing I can say about Putin, its that he has guts. However, that could very well lead to an all-out war. I'd hope that wouldn't happen, but I see this situation a bit like cornering a lion. The more economic sanctions are put into force against Russia, the more likely an attack is directly on the West, due to the anger against the UN/countries involved in the sanctions.

You might think that's unlikely, but then think he had the guts to supposedly deploy unmarked troops into Ukraine, knowing what the possible consequences were. Every major developed country fears a war with another developed country because of the prospect of nuclear weapons being involved. Putin is taking advantage of that fear and seeing how far he can go IMO.

That was a little off topic, but ohwell.
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Just Lance

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Re: International sanctions
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2014, 06:28:03 PM »
Politics and governments are getting more and more shady and sneaky... Also the things that are going on in the US it might seem there is a powder keg waiting to go off there... Meanwhile in Russia Putin is testing the waters to see where the boundaries are...

The nuclear scarecrow is there but it is a no go area. If any country resorts to using them they will turn the whole world against them allies or not.
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Re: International sanctions
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2014, 04:10:35 AM »
The issue with sanctions is that for them to really work you need to stop importing items from the said country that will reduce their economy or stop exporting necessary items to them that they need to function. The problem here is that doing so will mean you will have to import the materials you need (such as oil) from somewhere else, probably for a higher price, and find a new market for the goods you were selling to the sanctioned country.

So whilst you will hurt the sanctioned country's economy, you will also hurt your own. This makes countries unwilling to commit to larger sanctions.

There were similar problems during the Abyssinia Crisis in 1935 where Italy invaded what is now modern-day Ethiopia. The League of Nations - which was an ineffectual predecessor to the UN - placed sanctions on Italy for the invasion and the use of mustard gas amongst other atrocities. Of course, once the Italians had completed their conquest of Abyssinian it was voted to stop sanctions by the majority of nations, presumably as they saw the option of continuing sanctions as just a way to damage their own economies.

My point here being that sanctions, for the most part, seem to only work to show that a international community is behind a certain country. But when it looks like they will have to be imposed for the long-haul people start looking at their wallets and thing of other important things they should be doing - preferably something of importance that will over-power any media stories about sanctions being dropped.