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Games & Design => In-Development Indie/Homemade Games => Topic started by: Legacyblade on June 08, 2014, 10:00:34 PM

Title: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on June 08, 2014, 10:00:34 PM
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2FtopicImages%2Fsin-unsullied_title.png&hash=f33085d6cd4298c45e1cf5a04727bc49)

Five days until the world ends.

(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2FtopicImages%2Fsin-unsullied_story.png&hash=be2a28f48b6920b5029ec7cfe8f6c28e)
Dreams may be a result of sentience, but where does sentience come from?

There is another world that doesn't exist in the traditional sense of the word. Before this world drew close to humans, they were little more than tool-grasping apes. But with the gift of the mind comes a great cost. If our mind is a real place, then our nightmares are real creatures. And it's up to the small handfull of Reapers to defend humanity from the dark terrors lying just at the edges of their minds.

Sin Unsullied is an action RPG with visual novel elements. You only have five days to juggle building friendships, repairing your relationship with the woman you love, and growing stronger so you can stop the end of the world. The story changes based on your actions, so choose carefully.

You don't have enough time to experience everything in one playthrough, so be ready to choose what you really want.

(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2FtopicImages%2Fsin-unsullied_characters.png&hash=560b0c01b550754f544270608e09e7e9)


(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2FtopicImages%2Fsin-unsullied_char-Lee.png&hash=0b5866bdb4cee7d26bc1533fecca1911)
Spoiler: Lee • show

Lee is a nobleman who's spent his life tying to make those around him fulfill their dreams. After all, he was born with everything he could ever need. Why keep all that to himself?

But it all fell apart when he fell in love with someone he was helping. She threw away her life and became a Reaper.  And in the process, she threw Lee away as well.

With his will to help others gone, what is he to live for?


(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2FtopicImages%2Fsin-unsullied_char-Fayte.png&hash=c43b97433b7cf640bc4ab296f76d063f)
Spoiler: Fayte • show

Fayte made her way in life as a serving woman at a small tavern. Until she impressed Lee, a generous nobleman, with her ability to sing and tell stories. Now he's taken her into his world, showing her what renown her skills can earn her. Fayte could have the life she's always dreamed of if she just reaches out and accepts what she's being handed.

But there is more in life than singing and spinning tales. She had to throw it all away for something more important.




(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2FtopicImages%2Fsin-unsullied_features.png&hash=ea993e4d201bc215dd5c5b8c8d800a07)

Action Battle System
Jump right into the action! You'll need to be quick on your feet to survive the end of the world.

Branching Dialog
Take charge of your relationships! What you say matters in Sin Unsullied. Choose your options wisely.

Immerse Music
High quality music has been composed exclusively for Sin Unsullied creating a truly cinematic experience!

An emotional journey
Several track of high quality music has been composed exclusively for Sin Unsullied. Truly a cinematic experience!

(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2FtopicImages%2Fsin-unsullied_screenshots.png&hash=dfb16587aecf635d080934f8796574f8)

Spoiler: Title • show
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2Fscreenshots%2Ftitle%2520sequence.png&hash=35bb49a8275856b3535875e09293bc53)


Spoiler: Dancing in the Forest • show
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2Fscreenshots%2Fdancing%2520in%2520the%2520forest.png&hash=fb7df7de903fdc25cad0a0c77d3cda0e)


Spoiler: Transformation Sequence • show
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2Fscreenshots%2Ffayte%2520transforms.png&hash=0f720a3f8d0610665b9087651d45eb98)


Spoiler: Performance • show
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2Fscreenshots%2Fperformance.png&hash=888d0c3ab86b38a629d4881910102838)


Spoiler: Meteor Shower • show
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2Fscreenshots%2Fmeteor%2520shower.png&hash=95db1491fad0f0ce03f74719d9281f2f)



(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2FtopicImages%2Fsin-unsullied_demo.png&hash=5dec9ee1b5bd9d9a739ed2a7de63ccb0)
DOWNLOAD FULL GAME (http://legacyblade.com/downloads/SinUnsullied/SinUnsullied.zip)


(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2FtopicImages%2Fsin-unsullied_credits.png&hash=d03b6d9f96368c5b6c4e874e0c16c465)

Spoiler: show
Writen And Directed by Spencer "Legacyblade Conrad"

Graphics:

Spencer "Legacyblade Conrad"
Enterbrain
Sithjester
Kan Gao
Land of Shadows
Moghunter
Rye
Rayen
Nessiah
Grafikal
Fortysixand2
Kiriashi
Freedesignfile
Shutter Stock
Tile-able
Fame Designer
Ruth Kosh

Music:
Abigail Haugen
Bryan Davis
ReclaimedGlory
Kunsel
Nathangday
Jasprelao
Lana42


Sound Effects:
Enterbrain
Soundsnap
Freesounds

RGSS Scripts:
Enterbrain
Blizzard
Winkio
Gameus
Fantasist
Ren-s--Joker
Dubealex
Maki
和希
Ccoa
ForeverZer0
Heretic
SCMike
Spencer "Legacyblade" Conrad

Testers:
Ali
Roxaszu
Trevor Forsyth
Mike Stephans
Gamus
Slimmmeiske2



To keep up to date with Sin Unsullied, go to http://pixelbards.com/ (http://pixelbards.com/)

PLEASE COMMENT ON MY RPGMAKERWEB SUBMISSION PAGE (http://contest.rpgmakerweb.com/game/view/id/446#.U7HIX_ldXDp)
It will really help me out!
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Elke on June 09, 2014, 10:27:36 AM
^U^ Seems really interesting! I like the idea where if our dreams are true so are our nightmares *_* Good luck! Can't wait to see a demo!
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Merlandese on June 09, 2014, 12:41:27 PM
Awesome! Good luck getting it in! :D It looks great so far!
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Legacyblade on June 09, 2014, 01:32:57 PM
@Elke, glad you like the concept ^.^ I like when people take a relatively light premise (there's a magical dream world) and then do something to make it gritty, realistic, or darker. So I figured, might as well try it in my own work XD And the demo should be coming soon :3 Expect one by sunday at the latest.

@Merlandese, Thanks :) Means a lot coming from you.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Just Lance on June 09, 2014, 04:39:34 PM
*Kira kira* *.*

Looking forward on this one.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Legacyblade on June 10, 2014, 02:09:25 AM
@Lance, (so many sparkles o.o) Glad to hear it. And I hope you and your sparkly self will enjoy it when I release a demo later this week.

UPDATE EVERYONE!!!

I spent the day mapping out the main character's mansion. Man did it take forever x.x There was just so much empty space to fill in. Freaking rich people.

Here are some screenies of the mansion (they just show off a tiny bit of the mapping I did today)
Spoiler: show
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2Fscreenshots%2Fmanor%2520exterior.png&hash=033a05ef6d876df3f30328a326225550)
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2Fscreenshots%2FParlor.png&hash=e635c47a20d9da12a86d1585b4a196f4)
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2Fscreenshots%2FLee%2520Bedroom.png&hash=0f86f975ccadfa05b00db5fc50178809)


I want Lee's bedroom :P

Also, I did my first nightmare graphic. The enemies in the games don't exist. They and their world are what created the human subconcious (and along with it sentience) just by existing. So they're more conceptual energy than actual beings. I decided to make them scribbles and energy. I'm not sure if I like the result. It looks a LOT more lazy than it is. It took a significant amount of time to draw that thing from every angle multiple times for battle (then deciding that particular enemy only looked intimidating from the front and scrpapped the other angels x.x)

Tell me what you think

Spoiler: show
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2Fscreenshots%2Fbattle%2520system.png&hash=8c7eb64e60b873b0b1b8985f621b8c30)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Legacyblade on June 10, 2014, 01:36:39 PM
Do do do double post...

:P

After taking advice from a few different people, I modified the style of the nightmares. I think it looses a bit of uniqueness, (and departs a bit from my original vision) but it's hard to argue that this doesn't look better :P
Let me know what you guys think.

(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2Fscreenshots%2FNightmarePrev.gif&hash=a00672e8d30daeda106fd6358d770d2c)
I used some half-kaiser sprite pieces for the armor, then sprited in the energy and scribbles from scratch. I think this new style fits in universe a bit better than my previous iteration, as the Reapers transform into their battle outfits with similar looking blue energy (though it looks solid after transformation). My justification for magical girl transformations is that it's difficult to hurt nightmares with physical things. So they wrap themselves in something that's both physical and idea...energy...stuff. Still need to come up with a name for the stuff :P
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Eli on June 10, 2014, 03:52:16 PM
I agree that this new nightmare fits much more with the rest of the game's art style :)
From what I see, your game is going to be very unique by having lots of fresh animations and interesting characters :)
Actually I have a plot about dreams/nightmares in my mind too that I may someday make it as a game, so far it seems to be very different from your game but I may defer playing your game until I have a more clear idea about what I'm going to do, so my game does not become an unintentional copy of yours.  :reivsweat:
Good luck with the contest by the way :)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Legacyblade on June 10, 2014, 04:29:53 PM
Hey Ali :D

Glad it looks promising to you ^.^ The more work I put into it, the more excited I get to see my baby run loose in the wild. And I wouldn't worry about accidentally copying it. I find that it's easier to avoid copying people with similar ideas if you're aware of what they've done. But I'll leave it up to you when to try out my game :3
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Eli on June 11, 2014, 04:40:57 PM
I find that it's easier to avoid copying people with similar ideas if you're aware of what they've done.
Fair enough :)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Roxaszu on June 11, 2014, 10:25:22 PM
This looks great.
Simple, yet nice ~
Looking forward for this, keep it up :)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Elke on June 12, 2014, 11:25:24 AM
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flegacyblade.com%2Fimages%2FsinUnsullied%2Fscreenshots%2FNightmarePrev.gif&hash=a00672e8d30daeda106fd6358d770d2c)


:D I think the nightmares look a lot better like this ^U^ Haha, it almost looks like its wearing a dress with lots of fur xD Keep it up!
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Roxaszu on June 14, 2014, 09:36:16 AM
Hi There,
I found some bug(s),
Should I just post it here (It's picture) or should I just send you somewhere else ?
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Legacyblade on June 14, 2014, 01:11:50 PM
@Roxaszu(man! Your name is hard to spell!) Here is fine ^.^ Thanks for finding a bug!

@Question, Mark V, I used to let it get to me. But then I found out Lord of the Rings (the great grandaddy of everything I read) was a ripoff of norse mythology. All the games we play are derivations on previous ideas and could be called rippoffs. But no one thinks less of limbo, super meat boy, or portal due to their similarity to super mario bros XD Same is true of stories, IMHO.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Legacyblade on June 14, 2014, 02:11:32 PM
I know that, man. I guess that's the fun, risky part in that deal. That if you do it well enough, you can get away with it and be showered with praises. Otherwise, people will hound you down for not "ripping off" well enough. Also, I'll give this a shot, probably not until this coming Thursday though.

Ok! Can't wait to hear what you think about it. And true dat. People really do scorn stuff that they find to be a rippoff. But if you're excited enough about what you're making, usually that'll come through and people can feel it's it's own thing, ya know?
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Roxaszu on June 14, 2014, 02:52:31 PM
@Roxaszu(man! Your name is hard to spell!) Here is fine ^.^ Thanks for finding a bug!
Right Then !
As you wish !
Prepare yourself for the list of Bugs ! (Owh, did I mentioned "A Bug" ?, Well , I think it's not)
Spoiler: show
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10418485_10202582815670611_6032996023913515055_n.jpg)


Here we go :
Spoiler: show

Note : Sorry for being perfectionist ,
This is for your own goodness, So I make a little bit side story with paint, hopefully you don't mind :P

If you are ready, Please Proceed :
[Spoiler]
1
[Spoiler]

There are 5 places in this room, I edit it so It'll make less picture, And for the cupboard, It's everywhere that has same cupboard has same Bug

(https://scontent-b-sin.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10422601_10202582583984819_3494968321051106641_n.jpg)


2
Spoiler: show


I don't know if this is a bug, but I like the idea putting your head in a tree :P

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10435132_10202582584544833_8060034104845246971_n.jpg)


3
Spoiler: show


Hey, I'm not a reaper yet, I'm not even die yet, how come I lose my body !
Something like that :P

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/10417730_10202582584584834_8738014364414620722_n.jpg)


4
Spoiler: show


If you are planning to use map as Starter page, please put validation, so the character won't be going up or down, and please also disable the menu (You can save game in the main menu)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10433760_10202582584664836_38799995334474324_n.jpg)


5
Spoiler: show


Can't move to left for this part and other part that look's like this.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10422236_10202582585344853_6572223473698287841_n.jpg)


6
Spoiler: show


He can walk on water !
Wait, what ? :whaaa?:

(https://scontent-b-sin.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10468198_10202582585704862_3113907226307275289_n.jpg)


7
Spoiler: show


Did anything wrong you say Ali ?
Yeah, somethings wrong with that tree...

(https://scontent-b-sin.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/1554356_10202582585824865_4395845074961763123_n.jpg)


8
Spoiler: show


Ouch....
His head stuck I think....

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/10303467_10202582586304877_6505992886823830821_n.jpg)


9
Spoiler: show


And, yeah...
Till morning... :P
(And no one notice it....?)

(https://scontent-a-sin.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10329082_10202582586984894_655705115035533885_n.jpg?oh=15d5e4dd820ad8f0fb38905146daf957&oe=5410C437)


10
Spoiler: show


So, yeah...
I'm not sure either He become a ninja and able to walk on the wall or he just jump and his head stuck there...
Hmmmmm :deepstuff:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/10352275_10202582586384879_3530725318234308652_n.jpg)


11
Spoiler: show


Where am I ???

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10444649_10202582586184874_190041458148229784_n.jpg)


12
Spoiler: show


Yeah, He can stand on the table,
Hmmmmm..... :deepstuff:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10354802_10202582586624885_6982651820018298348_n.jpg)


13
Spoiler: show


He's really shy isn't he?

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/1907680_10202582586744888_4348637546705713860_n.jpg)


14
Spoiler: show


When the next day, If you go out from your house, and then go out to the exit on the south, when you go back to the house, there will be like this :

Note : I'm not sure if he thanks because Lee broke his leg or for what...
It's still mystery... :deepstuff:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10441934_10202582587144898_1729026897464802518_n.jpg)


15
Spoiler: show

Crazy moment in the kitchen part 1

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10359325_10202582587304902_437628820471661901_n.jpg)


16
Spoiler: show


Crazy moment in the kitchen part 2
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10303478_10202582587624910_7858763404425868075_n.jpg)


17
Spoiler: show


Crazy moment in the kitchen part 3

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10449186_10202582587944918_174151834453978542_n.jpg?oh=90575055f12901302dc2c513e80de9df&oe=541B23D5&__gda__=1411518911_7723d01b31f4117efb24092826aa06ba)


18
Spoiler: show


And after that,
That person locked me up here,
I'm not quite sure how to go out... :P

[Spoiler](Just kidding, I can go out)


(https://scontent-a-sin.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10440269_10202582587984919_518192855658415612_n.jpg)[/Spoiler]

19
Spoiler: show


Just a little bit of typo

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/10340174_10202582587784914_7097291709737227595_n.jpg)


20
Spoiler: show


Another Typo

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10406722_10202582589424955_1693942981007115127_n.jpg)


21
Spoiler: show

And...
Another one...
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10433202_10202582590504982_5164373601039384917_n.jpg)


22
Spoiler: show


Hey, He is hitting me !
Oh, Wait...
[Spoiler] I think this is not a bug :P


(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10415643_10202582588424930_3010889423023352025_n.jpg)[/Spoiler]

Hopefully you are not stressed up with this, all of that just a minor bug though.
And When the word "5 days before ...."
and then I just go out from the game, I don't know either it's the end of the demo or what.

But anyway, So far, so good ;)
Keep it up ;)
[/Spoiler]
[/Spoiler]
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Legacyblade on June 14, 2014, 03:28:11 PM
!!!!! Thank you so much! Holy crap! You're great at finding these o.o Mind if I send you test builds of the game every major milestone? It'd be great to have you helping me find all these! XD

Also, I love your comments on each picture :P I showed them to my friends who were over. We all had a good lol :P

-edit, also, yes, the demo ends at "five days until the world ends". Maybe I should put an extra textbox letting people know that's the end XD Or roll the credits or something :P

P.S. I'm trying to replicate the bug where Ali and Geofry are outside during the day. o.o I'm gonna try following your instructions. But holy fwoop. There's no way that should be possible!

- another edit

AHA, I misunderstood you. I thought I had to go back into the house a specific way. Wow. I can't believe I never tested going back down to the front yard XD I fixed it (and all the other bugs) now :3

I updated the download. It is sad that future players of the game won't know the joy of pot helmets though :P
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Eli on June 14, 2014, 06:55:09 PM
Wow wow wow!
A character with the same name as me!  :o   :') (happy tears)
And ouch by the way, my leg!  :P
Such a huge and beautiful mansion, it should have taken a lot of time!
I really liked the game so far, eagerly waiting for the next updates.  :)
And you have got the coolest bug report by Roxaszu. :P

If I may add some typos to Roxaszu's extensive report:
[spoiler]- Some sentences end without full stop.
- I think "..." needs space after.
- "All dad does these days is research that shell". Shouldn't it be researching?
- It seems that an unused space is before "I have yet to... ":
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5Burl%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F55p1v2g.png%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F55p1v2g.png%5B%2Furl%5D%29&hash=55d3406b546d416df0606d02b6eff20d)
- Honestly, Boy, what future did you see with you and that girl?
Shouldn't those be "boy" and "yourself"?

I'm not English native, sorry if I'm misguiding you.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Legacyblade on June 14, 2014, 07:27:53 PM
Hey, glad you played it ^.^ I was trying to come up with what to name him, and then figured your name would be a fun little easter egg XD

And yeah, that mansion took me about two days (18 hour days) to map. I'm eternally greatful to pianos and little red tables :P they helped me fill in some of the empty spaces.

As for your bugs,
- not sure what you mean by ending without full stop. Care to elaborate? (I've heard people say "full stop key" before o.o what is that?)
- there is no rule about spaces after the ellipsis. It just comes down to personal preference. You just have to be consistent
- Naw, researching is incorrect. I'm not sure why, as I suddenly forgot the names of whatever tense I used in that sentence. But researching is present tense (which that sentence is not)
- This is another of those "you can do it either way" scenario. Yourself is technically correct there, but people generally don't speak english properly. So most people wouldn't put it as yourself when speaking. And when someone is using a noun in place of a name like that (such as boy, father, etc) i prefer to capitalize them

Thanks for commenting :D and I'm glad you enjoyed the game ^>^
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Eli on June 14, 2014, 07:40:22 PM
Quote
Hey, glad you played it ^.^ I was trying to come up with what to name him, and then figured your name would be a fun little easter egg XD
It was the best easter egg ever. XD

Quote
- not sure what you mean by ending without full stop. Care to elaborate? (I've heard people say "full stop key" before o.o what is that?)
I mean period as a punctuation mark (.). :)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Legacyblade on June 14, 2014, 08:16:59 PM
Oh ok, lol. Can you quote the whole line where the periods are missing? It's hard to spot those in an event overview x.x

-edit

Update! I just edited the game so that if you hold Z or Shift, a green arrow will hover above your head and point where you're supposed to go. Some of my friends kept getting lost, so I added in the feature at their request.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Roxaszu on June 15, 2014, 01:48:45 PM
!!!!! Thank you so much! Holy crap! You're great at finding these o.o Mind if I send you test builds of the game every major milestone? It'd be great to have you helping me find all these! XD
Ok for major milestone, but not everytime, ok. :P
Oh yeah, Btw that's not all,
If I tell every single bug, it'll about 30 or more I guess,
most of them are wall, Your character can attached to some wall, but I consider it as "Not a bug"


-edit, also, yes, the demo ends at "five days until the world ends". Maybe I should put an extra textbox letting people know that's the end XD Or roll the credits or something :P


Please do, That'll help with the confusion.

Oh yeah, My comment is not including the grammatical error (Since I'm not quite sure, ok)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Legacyblade on June 30, 2014, 04:03:32 AM
OMG OMG!!!

I FINISHED!!

There is still a lot of polishing I need to do tomorrow (spell checking) and then after the contest, but you can play the game from start to finish!!!!

Here's a link.  PLEASE try it out and tell me what you think. I want to kill as many bugs as possible before I submit it

http://legacyblade.com/downloads/SinUnsullied/SinUnsullied_B001.zip (http://legacyblade.com/downloads/SinUnsullied/SinUnsullied_B001.zip)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied
Post by: Roxaszu on June 30, 2014, 08:47:55 AM
PLEASE try it out and tell me what you think. I want to kill as many bugs as possible before I submit it



Spoiler: show

(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Foriginal%2F000%2F007%2F423%2Funtitle.JPG&hash=84c84e03bfeb1cc42b9f3378c1df4596)
[Spoiler]Just kidding, I have found some bugs and what I think.
[Spoiler]
I think :
[Spoiler]Congrats on finishing the game, But you really change the button like z and x button, it took me a while at first to figure out what button you used, you might wanna add something to let people know the key on your keyboard for this game.
I even spent some minutes and have to push all the button in my keyboard when in the first battle to figure out how to attack (I just know how to jump), and how to go to menu, I think you seriously need to make something for the button things...


Bug(s) (I Think) :
Spoiler: show


1.
[Spoiler]From the previous picture, You still forget to fix the tree outside the house, oh well  :fezesarecool:


2.
Spoiler: show
I'm not quite sure why, but when you move in the middle of the house (Or some map in the house), the game will become "Lagging" somehow, I'm not sure if it's my computer or not.


3.
Spoiler: show
After meeting Lee's father, The game just get a little bit "Red" until you at the garden and becoming a reaper, is it like that ?


4.
Spoiler: show
Friends => You write it freinds at talking with fayte about ember (Facing left)


5.
Spoiler: show
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.sdreader.com%2Fimg%2Fphotos%2F2012%2F05%2F16%2Fnot_found.gif&hash=3f279afed5a624bfab723ef6b36e78bd)



6.
Spoiler: show
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.sdreader.com%2Fimg%2Fphotos%2F2012%2F05%2F16%2Fnot_found.gif&hash=3f279afed5a624bfab723ef6b36e78bd)


7.
Spoiler: show
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.sdreader.com%2Fimg%2Fphotos%2F2012%2F05%2F16%2Fnot_found.gif&hash=3f279afed5a624bfab723ef6b36e78bd)


8.
Spoiler: show
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.sdreader.com%2Fimg%2Fphotos%2F2012%2F05%2F16%2Fnot_found.gif&hash=3f279afed5a624bfab723ef6b36e78bd)


9.
Spoiler: show
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.sdreader.com%2Fimg%2Fphotos%2F2012%2F05%2F16%2Fnot_found.gif&hash=3f279afed5a624bfab723ef6b36e78bd)


10.
Spoiler: show
 Just kidding, you don't have much of bugs I think for this one, From no 6-10 is just a joke :P
It's pretty good so far. And good luck with the contest ;)

[/Spoiler]

[/Spoiler]
[/Spoiler]

[/Spoiler]
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Please test!)
Post by: Legacyblade on June 30, 2014, 11:42:44 AM
I thought I fixed that tree bug D:

It's supposed to go all red like that. It's signifying that Lee is pissed :P

and freinds. I write that a lot *facepalm* good catch!

And as for the controls, I did mention them in the tutorial, as well as a few other places in the game. But I guess I should explain how to open the menu earlier lol. I explain that about half way through the game XD (it prompts you to save every important point before that) But if someone is complaining about not understanding the controls, that means I didn't do a good enough job explaining them :P

How do you think I should let people access a list of the controls?

As for the lag, yeah I noticed that. MY computer lags there, and it's a bit beastly. I have a couple things I can do to try and fix it, but blizzABS just doesn't seem to like big maps.

Glad you're enjoying it so far. And I enjoyed your bug reports for 6-10 XD Thanks for going through! I appreciate it.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Please test!)
Post by: Eli on June 30, 2014, 12:30:04 PM
Congratulations!
Can't wait to try it when I get some free time :)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Please test!)
Post by: Legacyblade on June 30, 2014, 04:46:44 PM
When you do, please play the updated version!

http://legacyblade.com/downloads/SinUnsullied/SinUnsullied_B002.zip (http://legacyblade.com/downloads/SinUnsullied/SinUnsullied_B002.zip)

Also, here's my submission page!

http://contest.rpgmakerweb.com/game/view/id/446 (http://contest.rpgmakerweb.com/game/view/id/446)

I'l love if you guys could comment there. Sin Unsullied is looking so lonely D:
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Please test!)
Post by: Roxaszu on June 30, 2014, 11:49:05 PM
And as for the controls, I did mention them in the tutorial, as well as a few other places in the game. But I guess I should explain how to open the menu earlier lol. I explain that about half way through the game XD (it prompts you to save every important point before that) But if someone is complaining about not understanding the controls, that means I didn't do a good enough job explaining them :P

How do you think I should let people access a list of the controls?


Doing step by step will make the player even easier to follow it (With picture of course).
Like this one :
Spoiler: show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bwQHBtCI90

[Spoiler]And yes, It was made with rpg maker VX

[/Spoiler]
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Please test!)
Post by: Legacyblade on July 01, 2014, 12:44:29 AM
You're cheating though :P Tutorials are way easier to do in a platformer like that. I have to weave mine in with the narrative, since that's the main part of the gameplay.

But I took your advice :3 I explained the menu earlier, and reiterated previous bits (also I chanced the "where to go" button to N. Don't know why I left it as Z when I switched to WSAD controls lol). Thanks for the feedback! If people are confused about the controls, it means you have to fix something!

But holy crap that looks pretty! Did you make the resources yourself? Also, are you using a script or events?

I'm planning on trying out VXA for my next game, if I can figure out a way to use RMXP styled graphics in it (tilesets).  Because my main beef with the VX series is the graphics. But I don't want to make all the graphics myself :P Want to use the RMXP RTP in it.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Please test!)
Post by: Roxaszu on July 01, 2014, 01:17:35 AM
You're cheating though :P Tutorials are way easier to do in a platformer like that. I have to weave mine in with the narrative, since that's the main part of the gameplay.

But I took your advice :3 I explained the menu earlier, and reiterated previous bits (also I chanced the "where to go" button to N. Don't know why I left it as Z when I switched to WSAD controls lol). Thanks for the feedback! If people are confused about the controls, it means you have to fix something!
Maybe like for example you show the picture at the right bottom that show you can move, It's pretty eye catching and really easy to understand that we can move, maybe like when you enter battle, You stop the battle for a while and then show picture for push what button for what.

Maybe something like that.
There's even a lot more way to make a tutorial in narrative way

But holy crap that looks pretty! Did you make the resources yourself? Also, are you using a script or events?

I'm planning on trying out VXA for my next game, if I can figure out a way to use RMXP styled graphics in it (tilesets).  Because my main beef with the VX series is the graphics. But I don't want to make all the graphics myself :P Want to use the RMXP RTP in it.

It's not me who make that, It's Estheone the one who made it.
And yes, he made that with RPG Maker VX, Fully Script (Almost non common events.)
And as for the resources, he take it from somewhere else, He didn't make the graphic by himself (But he did make the script himself)

And I don't know about VXA, but I'm using VX, so I can easily say (For VX) that you can use RMXP Styled graphic. and yes, you can also use RMXP RTP in it.

If you wanna try the game, It's free to download , just search at google for "Touhou wondering souls Rpg Maker VX Download", It's about 30 hours++ gameplay though (You've been warned).
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Please test!)
Post by: Legacyblade on July 01, 2014, 02:25:20 AM
Quote
Maybe like for example you show the picture at the right bottom that show you can move, It's pretty eye catching and really easy to understand that we can move, maybe like when you enter battle, You stop the battle for a while and then show picture for push what button for what.

Maybe something like that.
There's even a lot more way to make a tutorial in narrative way

Oh! That's a good idea!!!

After the explanation that pops up with the controls, I could have a little picture drop in from the top and waggle. It would have a bubble with an attack icon connected to a bubble containing the letter J. I'd do the same for the item and skill buttons respectively!

That'll be a good way to alert the player that not only do they have control again, but their battle controls have been enabled.

Quote
It's not me who make that, It's Estheone the one who made it.
And yes, he made that with RPG Maker VX, Fully Script (Almost non common events.)
And as for the resources, he take it from somewhere else, He didn't make the graphic by himself (But he did make the script himself)

And I don't know about VXA, but I'm using VX, so I can easily say (For VX) that you can use RMXP Styled graphic. and yes, you can also use RMXP RTP in it.

VXA is just VX ported to a new version of ruby, and coded more efficiently. So If I could use the RMXP RTP in VX, I should be able to in ace as well :D Huzzah!

Quote
If you wanna try the game, It's free to download , just search at google for "Touhou wondering souls Rpg Maker VX Download", It's about 30 hours++ gameplay though (You've been warned).

o.o Wow. Maybe I'll wait a few weeks. No way am I going to have that kind of energy for awhile XD
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Please test!)
Post by: Elke on July 01, 2014, 10:41:11 PM
Hiya! So I'm making some comments as I play the game. I hope they're helpful! I wasn't able to finish today but that's what I've got so far. It's very interesting so far! I'll tell you more as I keep playing! (Just how do I save Q_Q)

Spoiler: show

-Oooh, I like the voice acting at the beginning!
-Moving around is a little difficult? It seems they move too fast... maybe that's just me... I had a little difficulty getting the hang of it at first
-I like the interior. The graphics are very nice :D
- BUG: I can't go in the front door from outside of the mansion, but when I went from inside and tried to go out the mansion's front door, I got stuck in the front door. Had to restart.
[spoiler](https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl553%2FKailanime%2FFrontDoorBug.png&hash=42b58fbe43b7aedf52ba88b6e920237b)

- As I got stuck in the front door, I attempted to try to find a restart or other way to go back to main page. Can't find one. Is there a menu to return to the main?
-BUG: When I walk up some stairs I sort of walk over them and not on them...
Spoiler: show
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl553%2FKailanime%2FFloatWalkingUpStairs.png&hash=7fbbfd9209e4453940612bee4ab0202a)

-O_O Thank you for the Z button to tell me where to go. Navigating that house is a pain...
[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on July 02, 2014, 12:22:04 AM
Dat door bug though :P A few days ago, I slightly shifted the manor and missed updating the front doors. I have it fixed on my end now, but I haven't had a chance to upload it.

BTW, how you save is press the F or escape key. It'll bring up a ring menu, from which you should select the save option (it's a blue arrow).

Also, I've fixed that stair bug now, lol. Along with a few others that might screw you over. So I'd suggest redownloading the game. You'll get the one that does a better job at explaining itself, and has the arrow button bound to N instead of Z (for easier holding whilst walking)

Glad a friend asked me to put in a way to help him find his way through the house. It seems to consistently be a maze to everyone. XD Everyone keeps commenting on how much they like the arrow :P


Thanks for playing :D I'm glad you're enjoying it so far! I really hope you like it enough to make it to the end. :3 If not, please tell me at which point the game lost you. I'm planning on polishing it up, so negative feedback is particularly helpful! (though I do love me some positive feedback as well :P)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Please test!)
Post by: Roxaszu on July 02, 2014, 12:45:38 AM
Spoiler: show

-BUG: When I walk up some stairs I sort of walk over them and not on them...
[spoiler](https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl553%2FKailanime%2FFloatWalkingUpStairs.png&hash=7fbbfd9209e4453940612bee4ab0202a)

[/spoiler]


Let's just consider he don't want to use stairs to go up,
He use the stair handrail instead :P
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Elke on July 02, 2014, 04:43:21 PM
Spoiler: show

-BUG: When I walk up some stairs I sort of walk over them and not on them...
[spoiler](https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl553%2FKailanime%2FFloatWalkingUpStairs.png&hash=7fbbfd9209e4453940612bee4ab0202a)

[/spoiler]


Let's just consider he don't want to use stairs to go up,
He use the stair handrail instead :P

=_= okay....

@legacyblade: I'm still playing the game :D I think I'll stick with this one for now and not download the new one... since I already started and have saved... I'll continue making comments as I go!
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on July 02, 2014, 05:09:30 PM
Ok :3 though your save should work in the updated version.

But if you're gonna keep that one, here are some known bugs:

Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Elke on July 03, 2014, 11:22:55 AM
Oh! If the save should work in both maybe I'll just download the new one? But then I'll have to wait OTL

.-. I'm too lazy, I'll just do my best to avoid the bugs in the current version.

Wait that sounds like a lot more work.

Nevermind I'll just redownload it ^U^
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Elke on July 03, 2014, 11:39:12 AM
As I was playing (redownloaded by the way), I found another bug? I went into Lee's room for fun and now I can't get out
-_-

Spoiler: show
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl553%2FKailanime%2FGERDERNITCantgetout.png&hash=b9d6096aad1a495034a853816dad8100)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Elke on July 03, 2014, 03:38:23 PM
WOW I just finished it! And I really liked it! One of my favorite things were the decisions you had to make! Some of the times I just sat there thinking "Well, goshdernit! I'm not qualified to make these decisions!" XDD I watched the credits thinking out of all the things I could've done to procrastinate homework, this was definitly the best choice. (Going to go replay and try to get the other ending).

So I have compiled a list of things I noticed along the way, things I thought were good and things I think can be improved on. Which you open first is up to you :D

Pros
Spoiler: show

-Really enjoyed the storyline
-Choices were difficult (especially that last one!) which made it really appealing
-Emotional appeal was good
-Liked the idea with improving relationships and how that worked!
-Appealing graphics and great music add a lot to the atmosphere


Cons
Spoiler: show

-A lot of controls to remember, had a little difficulty remembering which buttons did what
-Couldn't figure out what was the health bar and what the bell things were and what the blue bar was till the very end of the game
-A little difficult to read white text. For example:
[spoiler](https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl553%2FKailanime%2FHardtoRead.png&hash=02c8e729b02de067d45a94e36d430f59)

-Not really a con but when you die and it "Game Over" it stays on that screen. Maybe it should go back to the main menu?
[/spoiler]

Bugs?
Spoiler: show

-When I go to augment equipment and it asks if I want to augment that piece "yes or no", it doesn't matter if I click no or yes, it still augments it and uses up the nightmare essence...
-Intense lag whenever a choice needed to be made. For example:
[spoiler](https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl553%2FKailanime%2FIntenseLagHere1.png&hash=409be0c198086f86f81eefff242f6aa1)

[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on July 03, 2014, 03:50:54 PM
@Elke, gah x.x I thought I'd found all the door bugs that cropped up after I switched to blizzABS (it treats passibility a bit differetly in certain situations). I'll have to fix that one too!

I'm really glad you liked it though :D Though you'll be a bit disappointed with the other ending >.> I didn't actually have time to put it in. So a Tromuli is like "nuh, dun do that! Iz bad idea." and it puts you into the other ending. Something I'm going to be fixing in the coming month.

Quote
-Really enjoyed the storyline
-Choices were difficult (especially that last one!) which made it really appealing
-Emotional appeal was good
-Liked the idea with improving relationships and how that worked!
-Appealing graphics and great music add a lot to the atmosphere

Quote
-A lot of controls to remember, had a little difficulty remembering which buttons did what
-Couldn't figure out what was the health bar and what the bell things were and what the blue bar was till the very end of the game
-A little difficult to read white text.
Yeah, I'm planning on having it drop in a little picture with a reminder of the basic controls every time you start a battle (similar to how it shows WSAD every time you can control again. Credit to Roxaszu for the idea). And I've been hearing that a lot about the white text. It seems I should switch it to black text when the Tromuli and...errr...tutorial speak. (maybe dark blue for Tromuli and black for tutorial/thoughts). And I guess I should explain the health and mana bar lol. Maybe I'll have little heads of whoever you're controlling for the health, to make it clearer.

Quote
-Not really a con but when you die and it "Game Over" it stays on that screen. Maybe it should go back to the main menu?

How strange o.o it shouldn't do that.


Quote
-When I go to augment equipment and it asks if I want to augment that piece "yes or no", it doesn't matter if I click no or yes, it still augments it and uses up the nightmare essence...
Aye, that's a bug. Don't know how I managed to miss that. I'll have to point it out to my scripter.

Quote
-Intense lag whenever a choice needed to be made. For example:
Not sure why that's going on. Do you lag during battles too? Or just choices? (if the latter, that's even stranger o.o)


I'm glad that all worked well for you :3 I took a lot of inspiration from Quintessence and Persona (quintessence for the directing style, persona for most of the gameplay), so it seems I picked good sources to draw on :D

Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Elke on July 03, 2014, 10:21:28 PM
@Elke, gah x.x I thought I'd found all the door bugs that cropped up after I switched to blizzABS (it treats passibility a bit differetly in certain situations). I'll have to fix that one too!

I'm really glad you liked it though :D Though you'll be a bit disappointed with the other ending >.> I didn't actually have time to put it in. So a Tromuli is like "nuh, dun do that! Iz bad idea." and it puts you into the other ending. Something I'm going to be fixing in the coming month.

Awwh :< But if you end up adding the second ending, reupload it! I would love to see how that would've played out.

Yeah, I'm planning on having it drop in a little picture with a reminder of the basic controls every time you start a battle (similar to how it shows WSAD every time you can control again. Credit to Roxaszu for the idea). And I've been hearing that a lot about the white text. It seems I should switch it to black text when the Tromuli and...errr...tutorial speak. (maybe dark blue for Tromuli and black for tutorial/thoughts). And I guess I should explain the health and mana bar lol. Maybe I'll have little heads of whoever you're controlling for the health, to make it clearer.

Ooh, I think that's a good idea with the text, because the first time I saw the Tromuli talk I thought it was the tutorial XD Little heads would be hilarious XD But it may work!

Quote
-When I go to augment equipment and it asks if I want to augment that piece "yes or no", it doesn't matter if I click no or yes, it still augments it and uses up the nightmare essence...
Aye, that's a bug. Don't know how I managed to miss that. I'll have to point it out to my scripter.

Quote
-Intense lag whenever a choice needed to be made. For example:
Not sure why that's going on. Do you lag during battles too? Or just choices? (if the latter, that's even stranger o.o)

It only happened during choices O_O...

I'm glad that all worked well for you :3 I took a lot of inspiration from Quintessence and Persona (quintessence for the directing style, persona for most of the gameplay), so it seems I picked good sources to draw on :D

I don't think I mentioned this earlier, but I loved the way you ended the story. I don't know how to explain it >,< But I like the circularity, how things mentioned previously are continuously important... ajskdl ANYWAYS I really liked it :D T^T Good job! Wish you the best in the competition! I will definitly vote for your game
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on July 04, 2014, 01:26:54 AM
Quote
Awwh :< But if you end up adding the second ending, reupload it! I would love to see how that would've played out.

Oh I am going to ^.^ I'm going to be adding three more endings. It's actually kinda lucky I couldn't fit it, because someone gave me a really good idea that I'm going to incorporate in the "shoot the tree" ending.

Quote
Ooh, I think that's a good idea with the text, because the first time I saw the Tromuli talk I thought it was the tutorial XD Little heads would be hilarious XD But it may work!

Aye. When Lee thinks, the Tromuli talk, or we get tutorial, it's the same. lol. I think tutorial will be a centered textbox with no name, lee thinking will be white or black text without a box (the color depends on the background), and dark/light blue text (depending on the background) will be Tromuli. I even get confused sometimes, and I have most of the game memorized by now XD

Quote
It only happened during choices O_O...
That's so freaking weird...well I'm having my scripter change the choice window, so maybe that'll fix it :3


Quote
I don't think I mentioned this earlier, but I loved the way you ended the story. I don't know how to explain it >,< But I like the circularity, how things mentioned previously are continuously important... ajskdl ANYWAYS I really liked it :D T^T Good job! Wish you the best in the competition! I will definitly vote for your game
Thanks :3 I'm really glad you like it. I liked it when I came up with it, but after seeing it so many times it's hard to tell if it's good or not. So hearing that helps me be confident in the vision I had :3
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Roxaszu on July 04, 2014, 04:01:57 AM
So,
I don't know if this is the ending, but after the word "True Ending" there is another ending, "Error ending"
script 'Tons of Addons Part 2' line 1335 : SystemStackError Occured
Stack level too deep

I don't know,
But I like my name in the credit somehow :P (Both here and at the last word),
So, Up for another project ?
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on July 04, 2014, 01:31:43 PM
I'm guessing you pressed f12 to reset XD It's a well known problem if you're using any scripts that alias certain bits  of code (as reseting doesn't properly reset all the bits of code). There are some work arounds, but I didn't have enough time to add them in and test lol.

And you are in the credits :P I put you under "Tested by"

And what you mean up for another project? lol
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Roxaszu on July 04, 2014, 01:44:33 PM
I'm guessing you pressed f12 to reset XD It's a well known problem if you're using any scripts that alias certain bits  of code (as reseting doesn't properly reset all the bits of code). There are some work arounds, but I didn't have enough time to add them in and test lol.

And you are in the credits :P I put you under "Tested by"

And what you mean up for another project? lol
Yeah, you're right :P
I just wanna to try another option, therefore I press f12 :P

Yeah, Thx, I saw that  :'(

I mean, do you have "Next Project" that you want to make after this one ?
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on July 04, 2014, 02:12:38 PM
Yeah I do :3 Several in fact. I'm prolly gonna make a visual novel next, just to see how much I like working in that format. But before I do anything else, I'm going to spend the next few months polishing this one up. I might make a suped up version to sell for five bucks or something.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Elke on July 04, 2014, 04:41:04 PM
Oh I am going to ^.^ I'm going to be adding three more endings. It's actually kinda lucky I couldn't fit it, because someone gave me a really good idea that I'm going to incorporate in the "shoot the tree" ending.

 *U* I'm excited to see the other endings! When do you think you'll have them done... *_*

Quote
Aye. When Lee thinks, the Tromuli talk, or we get tutorial, it's the same. lol. I think tutorial will be a centered textbox with no name, lee thinking will be white or black text without a box (the color depends on the background), and dark/light blue text (depending on the background) will be Tromuli. I even get confused sometimes, and I have most of the game memorized by now XD

 :3 That may make it easier to distinguish! XD You know you've worked a lot when you've begun to memorize your game

Quote
Thanks :3 I'm really glad you like it. I liked it when I came up with it, but after seeing it so many times it's hard to tell if it's good or not. So hearing that helps me be confident in the vision I had :3

Haha, be more confident!  ;D It was fantastic!
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on July 04, 2014, 05:24:54 PM
Quote
*U* I'm excited to see the other endings! When do you think you'll have them done... *_*
I'm going back to work on the game on monday or so. I didn't sleep much in the month of june, so I'm giving myself a much needed break lol

Quote
Haha, be more confident!  ;D It was fantastic!
Thanks :3 Main reason I'm not super confident about this one is I'm used to telling stories as novels. I rely a lot on my prose to show the personality and mood of whoever's the focus by the things they notice and what they think about them. You can't do that in a visual medium, so I couldn't use a lot of my go-to tricks XD
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Shippofan2k on July 04, 2014, 09:35:00 PM
um i hate to be rude but when i go to download this game when finishes down loading it marks it as malware  and says it might be harmful to my laptop
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Elke on July 04, 2014, 11:23:05 PM
I'm going back to work on the game on monday or so. I didn't sleep much in the month of june, so I'm giving myself a much needed break lol

Ahh! O_O Totally make sure you take care of yourself! Rest up!

Quote
Thanks :3 Main reason I'm not super confident about this one is I'm used to telling stories as novels. I rely a lot on my prose to show the personality and mood of whoever's the focus by the things they notice and what they think about them. You can't do that in a visual medium, so I couldn't use a lot of my go-to tricks XD

Ohh, I see ^U^ You did very well though  :) Was it a difficult transition?
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on July 05, 2014, 03:28:54 AM
um i hate to be rude but when i go to download this game when finishes down loading it marks it as malware  and says it might be harmful to my laptop

Yeah. Chrome hates the RPG Maker XP game.exe for some reason :/ You can trust me though. I'm a moderator for this forum, and lots of other people have played it without getting any malware. Not sure why chrome hates RMXP so much x.x

Quote
Ohh, I see ^U^ You did very well though  :) Was it a difficult transition?
Oh heck yeah it was lol. Particularly with conversations. I didn't realize how much I relied on being able to describe what the tone sounded like or how the character interpreted it. But I feel like I grew a lot as a writer by doing this, so I'll be able to use prose better when I write in the novel format again :D
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Elke on July 05, 2014, 06:02:07 PM
Oh heck yeah it was lol. Particularly with conversations. I didn't realize how much I relied on being able to describe what the tone sounded like or how the character interpreted it. But I feel like I grew a lot as a writer by doing this, so I'll be able to use prose better when I write in the novel format again :D

Oh yeah, a lot of the narration really tells how they're speaking and the mood. o-o that does sound difficult. ;D It's good though since it seems to have helped you improve ^_^
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Shippofan2k on July 05, 2014, 11:29:38 PM
ok  :)  thanks I just wanted to double check i can't wait to play :)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: ~ on July 07, 2014, 06:52:29 AM
sorry dude, i only just got around to typing this up now. i don't know what bugs/features are left to report that you already know about so i'll  just very quickly outline the ones I noted and if you want me to expand on any I'll do so.
Spoiler: this is crazy! • show

[list]
[li]a lot of the white/black plain text directly on the background is difficult to read, i doubt you'll consider changing it this late in development though[/li]
[li]there are times when the dialogue boxes cover the characters, early example is from the line: "i already told you. i don't care", the boxes cover the sprites for Fayte and Lee, it's like watching a news announcement where the anchors sit behind their teleprompters. this is probably a technical lmitation of the engine but where possible, i'd recommend having the characters act out closer to the centre of the map (or move the camera further to the map's edge if your maps allow). You should always have lots of negative space around the edges of your maps for this purpose.[/li]
[li]After Lee's initial breakdown (wrecking the courtyard bit) there's a distinct lack of instruction given to the player. Not even a hint, but i dunno, maybe it'd sound like you're forcing it if it said "HEY PLAYER, FIND YOUR BED LOL!"[/li]
[li]Why does Geofry's name have an exclamation mark at the end of it (near the start, before you go inside the mansion)? Geofry! Geofry! Geofry![/li]
[li]i think you already know that exiting the mansion results in death (stuck-in-door-glitch). Once you're in, that's it, DO NOT LEAVE THE MANSION.[/li]
[li]likewise, the exponentional-walk-away-from-door glitch is horrifying![/li]
[li]"that's my parents bedroom" should be "that's my parents' bedroom"[/li]
[li]why can i enter the parlour from the outside side door but not from inside the mansion?[/li]
[li]there are SFX of doors opening when you exit the mansion from some doors, but not vice versa, is this intentional?[/li]
[li]SOOOOOOOO many pianos, do you know how expensive these things are? like i get he's a noble and all but... so many pianos...[/li]
[li]none of the south walls are passable! is this a limitation on the system or just using the wrong tiles/layers?[/li]
[li]Lee sometimes walks over his furniture (like his desk and coffee table in  his room). i know! i know! i get it again, he's a noble and doesn't care about no stinking rules and conventions and all.[/li]
[li]some tiles are impassable that should be passable though, like tiny little flowers or rocks, it's annoying to walk around and, in combat, it's totally crippling.[/li]
[li]balcony to lee's room transition dumps him one tile to the right of where he should spawn.[/li]
[li]ali's line needs fixing:
ali: "i mean, my shin is in two pieces, but am i going to use that for!?"
do you mean:
"but what am i going to use that for?"
even that doesn't quite make sense, maybe:
"but what was i going to use [...]"
or maybe:
"what am i going to use them for?"
i don't know.[/li]
[li]you transition from memory/the past to the future jarringly. it says "the next evening" then says 6 days until the end of the whateveralypse. this is immediately after a flashback of Fayte and the first encounter with Aiden on mysterious reaper business. It's ambiguous, it makes it seem like the next evening after the encounter with Aiden.[/li]
[li]odd space in the line:
"My father spent his life driving this house into the ground. Then  he abandoned me and my mother to play at being a hero."
between "mother" and "to" there is a line break and an extra space, looks like an indent.[/li]
[li]some typos "i already yold you, in bed!" and "is there another camp or soemthing"[/li]
[li]when interacting with your teammates, you will be able to choose certain responses."
message doesn't appear at your first choice if you didn't choose fayte to talk to her at the first opportunity. or at least, i chose aiden to talk to first but the message didn't appear, this should really appear with whoever you talk to first.[/li]
[li]"inca detailed summary of the new form the equipment will take"
what? inca? is this jargon? i don't know anymore man.[/li]
[li]"1 days until the world ends."
1 days.
days.
s.
s[/li]
[li]bg music on the world ends day with edmund reveal is waaaaay quiet. is this intentional?[/li]
[li]jumping mechanic is crazy! final battle? literally jump off the cliff and float around behind edmund's energy blasts. then attack him when he lands back on ground, jump off cliff again to avoid blasts and repeat until he is dead.[/li]
[li]"his mind is pouring into mind" do you mean "into mine"?[/li]
[/list]


working on trailer, did you still need it or did you find someone more professional? I should be done in a week or so, I don't know since I'm travelling about so much. I'll still make it unofficially if you don't need it, since I've never actually made a trailer before I think I'll turn it into a learning experience, if that's alright with you!
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Roxaszu on July 07, 2014, 07:45:10 AM
sorry dude, i only just got around to typing this up now. i don't know what bugs/features are left to report that you already know about so i'll  just very quickly outline the ones I noted and if you want me to expand on any I'll do so.
Spoiler: this is crazy! • show

[list]
[li]a lot of the white/black plain text directly on the background is difficult to read, i doubt you'll consider changing it this late in development though[/li]
[li]there are times when the dialogue boxes cover the characters, early example is from the line: "i already told you. i don't care", the boxes cover the sprites for Fayte and Lee, it's like watching a news announcement where the anchors sit behind their teleprompters. this is probably a technical lmitation of the engine but where possible, i'd recommend having the characters act out closer to the centre of the map (or move the camera further to the map's edge if your maps allow). You should always have lots of negative space around the edges of your maps for this purpose.[/li]
[li]After Lee's initial breakdown (wrecking the courtyard bit) there's a distinct lack of instruction given to the player. Not even a hint, but i dunno, maybe it'd sound like you're forcing it if it said "HEY PLAYER, FIND YOUR BED LOL!"[/li]
[li]Why does Geofry's name have an exclamation mark at the end of it (near the start, before you go inside the mansion)? Geofry! Geofry! Geofry![/li]
[li]i think you already know that exiting the mansion results in death (stuck-in-door-glitch). Once you're in, that's it, DO NOT LEAVE THE MANSION.[/li]
[li]likewise, the exponentional-walk-away-from-door glitch is horrifying![/li]
[li]"that's my parents bedroom" should be "that's my parents' bedroom"[/li]
[li]why can i enter the parlour from the outside side door but not from inside the mansion?[/li]
[li]there are SFX of doors opening when you exit the mansion from some doors, but not vice versa, is this intentional?[/li]
[li]SOOOOOOOO many pianos, do you know how expensive these things are? like i get he's a noble and all but... so many pianos...[/li]
[li]none of the south walls are passable! is this a limitation on the system or just using the wrong tiles/layers?[/li]
[li]Lee sometimes walks over his furniture (like his desk and coffee table in  his room). i know! i know! i get it again, he's a noble and doesn't care about no stinking rules and conventions and all.[/li]
[li]some tiles are impassable that should be passable though, like tiny little flowers or rocks, it's annoying to walk around and, in combat, it's totally crippling.[/li]
[li]balcony to lee's room transition dumps him one tile to the right of where he should spawn.[/li]
[li]ali's line needs fixing:
ali: "i mean, my shin is in two pieces, but am i going to use that for!?"
do you mean:
"but what am i going to use that for?"
even that doesn't quite make sense, maybe:
"but what was i going to use [...]"
or maybe:
"what am i going to use them for?"
i don't know.[/li]
[li]you transition from memory/the past to the future jarringly. it says "the next evening" then says 6 days until the end of the whateveralypse. this is immediately after a flashback of Fayte and the first encounter with Aiden on mysterious reaper business. It's ambiguous, it makes it seem like the next evening after the encounter with Aiden.[/li]
[li]odd space in the line:
"My father spent his life driving this house into the ground. Then  he abandoned me and my mother to play at being a hero."
between "mother" and "to" there is a line break and an extra space, looks like an indent.[/li]
[li]some typos "i already yold you, in bed!" and "is there another camp or soemthing"[/li]
[li]when interacting with your teammates, you will be able to choose certain responses."
message doesn't appear at your first choice if you didn't choose fayte to talk to her at the first opportunity. or at least, i chose aiden to talk to first but the message didn't appear, this should really appear with whoever you talk to first.[/li]
[li]"inca detailed summary of the new form the equipment will take"
what? inca? is this jargon? i don't know anymore man.[/li]
[li]"1 days until the world ends."
1 days.
days.
s.
s[/li]
[li]bg music on the world ends day with edmund reveal is waaaaay quiet. is this intentional?[/li]
[li]jumping mechanic is crazy! final battle? literally jump off the cliff and float around behind edmund's energy blasts. then attack him when he lands back on ground, jump off cliff again to avoid blasts and repeat until he is dead.[/li]
[li]"his mind is pouring into mind" do you mean "into mine"?[/li]
[/list][/spoiler]

working on trailer, did you still need it or did you find someone more professional? I should be done in a week or so, I don't know since I'm travelling about so much. I'll still make it unofficially if you don't need it, since I've never actually made a trailer before I think I'll turn it into a learning experience, if that's alright with you!


I know, Right !
Yeah, at least someone discover the bugs again.
We throw these bugs here and I think Like we are :
Spoiler: show
(https://freebirdgames.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweknowmemes.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F02%2Fthats-the-evilest-thing-i-can-imagine-meme-template.jpg&hash=9a35f6d5e36441b203db2170e7b4c83b)


Cheer up Legacyblade :)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on July 07, 2014, 11:08:15 AM
@SpecialCookies, huzzah! You found some typos I missed. And a few bugs that I haven't found yet :D I was waiting till today to do anymore work, cuz I've been sleeping most of july :P

I did fix that exponential door glitch. I had to just make it teleport the player. But now that I think about it, that probably exists in the guest room too o.o That one is caused by how blizzABS handles the event touching. I found it the last day of testing lol, as I changed the battle system to an action based one pretty late in development. I AM planning on changing the white text on the light purple background, lol. And you're the first person to comment on the textbox hiding all the sprites. It's really bugged me, lol, but I figured I could just leave it alone if no one seemed to notice it. I'm planning on hiring someone to make faces for the main characters, so the textbox will just swap between the very top or the very bottom (depending on where I can put it so as not to cover up the sprites)

Also o.o I didn't think about trying to jump into the air like that, lol.  I know how to fix that.

And I do keep hearing that the flowers are just annoying whilst battling. It should be easy to just make them passable tiles.

As for the trailer, that sounds like a good timeframe :3

@Roxaszu, I'm always really happy when people find bugs, lol. Means less testing for me. XD When you can recite your entire game from beginning to end, another playthrough to check for bugs just doesn't sound appealing :P It's like I watched the same movie over and over and over in the span of a few weeks.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: ~ on July 11, 2014, 08:43:51 AM
wait, i need to shove your recording in somewhere, errrm.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Roxaszu on August 01, 2014, 09:57:03 AM
Hey Legacyblade,
I'm just drop by and just wanna know how the game competition ? :)
Best of luck ;)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on August 01, 2014, 10:56:26 AM
I've only got like eleven votes :/ So I won't be winning the community choice one. They haven't announced anything about the ones the judges have picked. I'm hoping I fair better that way.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Roxaszu on August 02, 2014, 12:17:00 AM
I've only got like eleven votes :/ So I won't be winning the community choice one. They haven't announced anything about the ones the judges have picked. I'm hoping I fair better that way.
Hahaha,
Well,
It's just probably the thing that you should ask your friends for help to vote :P
Anyway, no problem with that.
Glad to hear it then, looking forward for the result ;)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Eli on August 27, 2014, 02:48:57 PM
I could no longer wait for a fix for the Mac port so I played the full version on Wine and I'm glad that I did. :)
If I'm not mistaken it is the first game I have played since July and I'm happy that I did.
I guess Roxaszu and others have pointed to the most important things, so I'm sorry if some of the things I say has been said before.
First of all I really like the visual style of the world Reapers live on and the importance of bonding with other characters beside having battles and action scenes.
I have mixed feelings about the battles, sometimes it was challenging, sometimes it seemed random.
About the story, I really like the regret theme and the way it tries to bring different perspectives to the story, not just from the view of the main character.

I believe the story has a lot of potentials and you can expand on it:
- You can add more scenes introducing the characters and their backgrounds. I know you had a limited time because of the contest but if you intend on spending time to improve the game I think it really helps to have more flashbacks, more interaction between characters, etc.

- The Reapers philosophy and their history would greatly benefit from getting explained in more detail. I know it may make the game boring for people who don't want to read a lot of text, but I guess it would help if there were some characters or items (such as books, notes, etc.) that you could optionally interact with them to learn more about Reapers and their philosophy.

- I think it would be more true to Lee's character if he showed more stubbornness and if he acted more revengeful. Maybe it was because of the peaceful sentences I chose when I was given the choice, but in my opinion his anger and mistrust should have caused him to do more regrettable things.

Spoiler: show
BTW, Having a cool lesbian character and the suicide scene in the end are only some of the things that many game creators are afraid to do but it has made your game pretty unique and memorable to me.  :kardiansmile:


I really enjoyed playing it and I have to congratulate you on finishing it in time for the contest. :)
Keep up the great work!
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Roxaszu on August 28, 2014, 06:26:34 AM
Hey, Ali !
Where have you been ?!
So, You can't play RPG Maker XP in mac without Wine ?
I was wondering and wanna ask you about wine and the port you said before, What is that ?

BTW, Having a cool lesbian character and the suicide scene in the end are only some of the things that many game creators are afraid to do but it has made your game pretty unique and memorable to me.  :kardiansmile:

Ughh...
I just realize it, I guess I kinda ....
"Ughh :P"
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Eli on August 28, 2014, 08:25:49 AM
Hey, Ali !
Where have you been ?!
So, You can't play RPG Maker XP in mac without Wine ?
I was wondering and wanna ask you about wine and the port you said before, What is that ?
Hi Roxaszu,
I have been visiting the forums more or less but I was very busy.
RPG Maker XP* games can be played on Mac and Linux with the help of mkxp engine made by Ancurio, but if the ruby scripts used in the game depend on Win32APIs, you should either use the functionality Ancurio added to mkxp to simulate them or if there is no equivalent in mkxp, you should rewrite the script.
Early demos of Sin Unsullied used different scripts that could be relatively easily ported to Mac with mkxp.
The full version uses a custom keyboard script that relies on Win32APIs and I was unable to make it work with mkxp.

* Latest versions of mkxp have experimental support for RGSS2 and RGSS3 scripts, therefore in the near future we can count on mkxp for porting RPG Maker VX and VX Ace games too.
https://github.com/Ancurio/mkxp (https://github.com/Ancurio/mkxp)

Wine is a reimplementation of the Windows API for other operating system such as Mac and Linux, Wine acts as a compatibility layer to allow you run Windows applications without modification on alternative platforms.
Most RPG Maker XP, VX and VX Ace games and many other Windows software can run on Mac and Linux with the help of Wine, sometimes with bugs and performance issues, sometimes almost perfectly.
When it comes to choosing between mkxp and Wine, whenever a game can be played natively with mkxp on Mac, I prefer it to Wine, but when I fail at changing the ruby scripts to make them compatible, I resort to using Wine.
https://www.winehq.org (https://www.winehq.org)

Quote from:
Ughh...
I just realize it, I guess I kinda ....
"Ughh :P"
Why Ugh... ? ;)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Roxaszu on August 28, 2014, 11:28:46 AM
Hey, Ali !
Where have you been ?!
So, You can't play RPG Maker XP in mac without Wine ?
I was wondering and wanna ask you about wine and the port you said before, What is that ?
Hi Roxaszu,
I have been visiting the forums more or less but I was very busy.
RPG Maker XP* games can be played on Mac and Linux with the help of mkxp engine made by Ancurio, but if the ruby scripts used in the game depend on Win32APIs, you should either use the functionality Ancurio added to mkxp to simulate them or if there is no equivalent in mkxp, you should rewrite the script.
Early demos of Sin Unsullied used different scripts that could be relatively easily ported to Mac with mkxp.
The full version uses a custom keyboard script that relies on Win32APIs and I was unable to make it work with mkxp.

* Latest versions of mkxp have experimental support for RGSS2 and RGSS3 scripts, therefore in the near future we can count on mkxp for porting RPG Maker VX and VX Ace games too.
https://github.com/Ancurio/mkxp (https://github.com/Ancurio/mkxp)

Wine is a reimplementation of the Windows API for other operating system such as Mac and Linux, Wine acts as a compatibility layer to allow you run Windows applications without modification on alternative platforms.
Most RPG Maker XP, VX and VX Ace games and many other Windows software can run on Mac and Linux with the help of Wine, sometimes with bugs and performance issues, sometimes almost perfectly.
When it comes to choosing between mkxp and Wine, whenever a game can be played natively with mkxp on Mac, I prefer it to Wine, but when I fail at changing the ruby scripts to make them compatible, I resort to using Wine.
https://www.winehq.org (https://www.winehq.org)
Owh,
Ok, I get it, more or less.
Is it (Wine and mkxp) something that you have to install it first, or is it like a patch or something like that (Which you don't have to install it) ?

Quote
Quote
Ughh...
I just realize it, I guess I kinda ....
"Ughh :P"
Why Ugh... ? ;)

Ugghhh,
That's somehow ....
Wrong for me.

So, yeah...
It's just ...
totally wrong ... :reivsweat:
If you wanna know the detail about why , maybe I can give it a shot and explain it to you...  :reivsweat:
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Eli on August 28, 2014, 11:57:30 AM
Quote
Owh,
Ok, I get it, more or less.
Is it (Wine and mkxp) something that you have to install it first, or is it like a patch or something like that (Which you don't have to install it) ?
For both of them you can either install it on your machine and point it to the game files or bundle it with the game.
For Wine on Linux it is more common to install it first then install and run Windows software on it.
On Mac, people either install Wine first and run applications with it or download and user "Wine wrappers" which are actually a portable version of Wine bundled with the game files.
For mkxp, since it is native software it makes sense to just bundle it with the game and the Mac/Linux user may never know that they are actually running the game with mkxp.

Quote
If you wanna know the detail aboutwhy , maybe I can give it a shot and explain it to you...  :reivsweat:
I guess we have to agree to disagree.
It is one of those controversial topics that rarely one side can persuade the other side and usually nothing good comes from such discussions.
What you have said is not offensive to LegacyBlade since he is not homosexual and I don't think by creating a homosexual character he wanted to endorse homosexuality, but it may be offensive to others, it is up to you to decide but if I were you I would edit my post.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Roxaszu on August 28, 2014, 12:30:10 PM
Quote
Owh,
Ok, I get it, more or less.
Is it (Wine and mkxp) something that you have to install it first, or is it like a patch or something like that (Which you don't have to install it) ?
For both of them you can either install it on your machine and point it to the game files or bundle it with the game.
For Wine on Linux it is more common to install it first then install and run Windows software on it.
On Mac, people either install Wine first and run applications with it or download and user "Wine wrappers" which are actually a portable version of Wine bundled with the game files.
For mkxp, since it is native software it makes sense to just bundle it with the game and the Mac/Linux user may never know that they are actually running the game with mkxp.

Ok, Got it. :gothat!:
I'll try to learn more about it later on then.
Thanks Ali, This will be really helpful for me later on. ;)

Quote
I guess we have to agree to disagree.
It is one of those controversial topics that rarely one side can persuade the other side and usually nothing good comes from such discussions.
What you have said is not offensive to LegacyBlade since he is not homosexual and I don't think by creating a homosexual character he wanted to endorse homosexuality, but it may be offensive to others, it is up to you to decide but if I were you I would edit my post.

Yeah,
I agree.
And yeah, I'm not saying creating homosexual character makes him one (in fact, It's not what I'm saying at all)
I was actually ...
Nevermind. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on August 28, 2014, 12:43:07 PM
@Ali, I'm glad you played it all the way through ^.^ And I totally agree with you about the battles. They were literally the last thing I put in, so they didn't have much polish. What I'm planning on doing is replacing the minute long battle fests with little dungeons with a miniboss at the end. It'll allow me to force the player to get more acquainted with the battle system and controls, as well as have more time to enjoy the action at their own pace.

I do like your idea of giving Lee more vengeful options to pick. I'm thinking I may steal a page out of Catherine's book and have a little morality meter. At certain key points, Lee's actions will be dictated by how you've been playing him (and it'll give you a clear indication that that's the point). Until I come up with a better name, I'm gonna call the morality meter the "angst-o-meter" :P Cuz it measures how angsty you've been playing Lee up to that point.

BTW, what do you think about having certain parts of the game where you play as Fayte? I'm feeling that there's too long a time period without any gameplay to sink your teeth into. So I'm thinking that at some point while Lee is still a human, we switch to controlling Fayte and get a tutorial dungeon in Reverie.

Also, I like the idea of leaving little flavor text books laying around. Maybe I'll have a little catalog that keeps track of all the texts you've read and lets you reread them. That'll help encourage players to explore, if they like that sorta thing!

@Roxaszu, lol, are you saying you didn't notice that Ember was lesbian?

Regardless, yeah. Including a character isn't a statement on whether or not I endorse homosexuality. I don't usually agree with what my characters believe, but they make their own choices. Though I'm not going to share my thoughts on whether or not homosexuality is acceptable, as you'll piss off a large group either way you go :P

Just as a bit of advice though, you're going to get a lot of flack if you describe homosexuals as gross XD You're welcome to have your own opinion, but just be careful in how you express it.

That being said, do you find homosexuality to be morally wrong? Or is it just something you find distasteful to watch?Just curious as to what your opinion is :3
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Roxaszu on August 28, 2014, 01:13:28 PM
@Roxaszu, lol, are you saying you didn't notice that Ember was lesbian?
No,
Not at all,
When I played your game to review it and find bug,
It's already pass the midnight (If I'm not mistaken)
and my eyes already asking for me to go to bed,
So I just passed most of the conversation between those two,
I thought they are just some normal girls who (can't find another place to sleep and have to) share their own bed as a friend, nothing else...
(Since I'm not reading the text and just see the picture).
So, Yeah...
I'm not quite aware of that.

Just as a bit of advice though, you're going to get a lot of flack if you describe homosexuals as gross XD You're welcome to have your own opinion, but just be careful in how you express it.
Yeah, Thanks...
I'm aware of that too...
It's just ...
Spoiler: show

Nah...
Forget it :P


Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on August 28, 2014, 01:15:38 PM
Ah ok. That makes sense. And unless you go down Ember's route, their relationship isn't focused on too much, so I can see how if you were just watching the images you could miss that.

And alright, lol. I will wait for it :P
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Eli on August 29, 2014, 03:38:46 PM
@Roxaszu,
You're welcome, feel free to ask any questions you may have about such ports in the future. :)

@legacyblade,
I agree with all the improvements you have mentioned, including "angst-o-meter".
I would really like to play as Fayte at some point, it helps to see the story from different perspectives and also get more acquainted with characters.
I remember in Paper Mario, which is my favorite Nintendo game of all time, I really liked it when I was given the chance to play as Princess Peach, although she could not do much it was still interesting (I did not intend to compare Fayte's character with Princess Peach, they are pretty much the opposite!).
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on September 01, 2014, 03:33:29 PM
Those were always my favorite parts too! Me and my friends used to like to play single player games together and switch off. We always fought over the princess peach sections XD Though I totally agree with you. Fayte is pretty much the exact opposite of peach :P I think seeing her away from Lee can help fix a major problem people have with her: we never really see her happy or having fun. Seeing her when she's not around someone she shares a painful history with will allow the player to observer her in a different light.

And I'm glad you like the angst-o-meter, lol. I thought it was a really cool concept in Catherine. It just was underused (as the story didn't really branch at all. Your actions just slightly changed Vincent's internal monologue). I can't wait to play around with it!
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Eli on September 02, 2014, 05:42:45 PM
Looking forward to see the improvements in a future version. :)

I also think it would help to at least see some scenes about the father character, especially after his son is gone, I'm not suggesting making him playable, but I think he deserves to defend his view. ;)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on September 04, 2014, 03:15:47 AM
Oooh, good idea! I didn't even think of showing more of the father. I think he'd be furious at first that his son became a Reaper, but eventually come to blame himself and have a lot of remorse. He DID care about his son. He just didn't know how to be a father as his own was busy playing hero all the time. (Edmund, lee's grandfather, was a great man, just not a very good husband or father. He would have been a far better general in an army than the head of a noble household). Thanks for the suggestion Ali!
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Eli on September 04, 2014, 05:55:17 PM
I'm glad that you are considering my suggestion, but feel free to discard it if in the final work you don't like it, I'm just tossing ideas around! :)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Kracken Kitty on December 16, 2014, 10:04:32 AM
I am downloading this game and going to play it! ;3
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Elke on December 18, 2014, 09:56:57 PM
Hey! It's been awhile! Just wanted to check up and ask if you got around to making the second ending? Hope everythings doing well
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Abrom on December 20, 2014, 01:58:48 PM
Heh, I gotta ask, did you watch Puella Magi Madoka Magica before coming up with this story? Seems like Sin Unsullied could have drawn a lot of inspiration from it. Anyway, here's some typos I found throughout the game.

Spoiler: show
When Fayte is telling the story about the Nightmares and whatnot.
Fayte: A unearthly sound like glass grinding against metal split the air.
Should be 'An', not 'A'

In the thought world, after Ember and Fayte are interrupted by a familiar voice.
???: I already yold you, in bed!
I imagine that it's supposed to be 'told'...also, I wasn't paying attention too much at the time - Lol, who was talking about being in bed here? Seems like an Ember line, since she's so over-sexualized.

When you spend your first time with Ember, after Fayte runs off.
Ember: But me and you need to have a chat, once you're cooled down a little.
It still works as is, but I think it's supposed to be 'you've', instead of 'you're'

Lee spending time with Ember, talking about Fayte. (I guess I should have been more clear about this when I wrote it down. I didn't realize that all the time spent with Ember would consist of conversations of Fayte. I think this is still in the first time spent with her.)
Lee: The why the hell did she become one of you!?
Obviously, the first 'The' should be 'Then'

When Fayte first mentions Aiden to Lee.
Fayte: And from what I gather, he's been at it for over an hundred years.
'an' should be 'a' I believe


Now, what I thought about the game...
Spoiler: show
I didn't actually finish the game :/ I died on Edmund and I didn't feel like leveling up or trying at it again. It's not because the combat is bad; I mean, as far as trying to have a real-time battle goes, this is pretty damn good for RPGMaker. But, that's the thing - it's RPGMaker, there isn't going to be a real-time battle system that's going to make me want to play it compared to other games. Now, as far the story goes...the similarities to Puella Magi Madoka Magica are uncanny. Not saying that's a bad thing. As far as I know, this might have a lot more story to it than I was able to witness in my playthrough, but I was frustrated with the way the story was presented to me. It just takes so long to learn what I want to learn about, it's based off of multiple choice, and it's broken into such small increments...I don't know, maybe I'm just not the target audience for this game. I also had a hard time feeling for the characters. Lee's an asshole, Fayte's a slut (more or less), Aiden's also an asshole (as we learn shortly before you find Edmund), and Ember is over-sexualized. It didn't help that everybody kept throwing the blame around to people in ways that just didn't make sense. I'm sorry for the negative feedback, but don't take it harshly; it's pretty hard to please me :/ I just thought that it would be better for me to be honest, than to blow smoke up your ass. But, hey, if you ever decide to tell this story in a way that isn't a multiple choice, visual novel, I'd sure like to take a look at it :)

Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on December 21, 2014, 08:22:21 PM
@Elke, naw. I've been more focused on writing novels lately. I'm planning on remaking the game from scratch in unity sometime in the next couple years though :)

@Abrom, yeah. I'm a huge Madoka Magica fan. I even put a little madoka cameo in the game (one of the stained glass windows is a depiction of madoka).

I'm sorry that the game wasn't to your liking. I realize that a lot of the points you raise are pretty valid, especially the combat. I really don't like how the combat turned out, which is the main reason I'm planning on remaking this in unity. RPG Maker is running on a really OLD engine, and doesn't provide the degree of control needed for real time battling to feel particularly fullfilling. Plus the 1 minute button mashing fest isn't particularly interesting :P

I agree with you that Lee's a jerk, but I don't quite understand why you think Fayte's a slut o.o I'm super curious, what makes you think that? I'm remaking the game, so I'd really like to understand what things she did made you feel that way so I can be aware of them when touching up the story.

The visual novel elements will stay, so I don't know if it'll ever be to your liking. But I am planning on making the combat better and giving you more time to get to know the world and the characters before it ends.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Abrom on December 22, 2014, 11:02:19 AM
I agree with you that Lee's a jerk, but I don't quite understand why you think Fayte's a slut o.o I'm super curious, what makes you think that? I'm remaking the game, so I'd really like to understand what things she did made you feel that way so I can be aware of them when touching up the story.
Alright, well...
Spoiler: show
In the flashback of Fayte and Lee spending time together after she told her story about the Nightmares, she was about to kiss Lee, but then Aiden comes in and she shows an attraction to him. Now, I get that this was supposed to be interpreted as this, since Lee is supposed to believe that she became a Reaper to be with Aiden...even though that's not really her reason, and she actually did it because she wanted to become a Reaper to save Lee...right? If I did get this right, maybe it could be reworded to make it more clear, during the flashback, that she was more interested in Aiden's abilities, than Aiden himself.
Next, when Lee is arguing with his father, his father talks about how Fayte is a barmaid, and the context of what he was saying seemed to imply that she was a loose woman. If this is what his father was trying to get at, then maybe Lee could respond about how pure of a woman she really is; maybe he could mention that she's still a virgin...if she even is. But, yeah, this part seemed to suggest that Fayte got around.
Lastly, it turns out that Fayte ends up dating the horniest woman alive, Ember. And the thing is...I don't know if I missed this, but how much time spanned in between when Fayte became a Reaper/Lee learned that she became a Reaper, and to the point that Lee met up with Fayte again in the thought world? Because it didn't seem it could have been all that long of a time, since Lee was still sulking about it and everyone was trying to give him the usual 'just got dumped' cheer-up talks. I mean, it seemed to me that we might be looking at a time frame of...MAYBE months. So, my point is, it didn't seem like all that much time went by, and then it turns out that in that short time, Fayte starts dating a chick. And the fact that it's a chick kinda adds to the 'Fayte being a slut' theory, since she's apparently willing to be in a sensual relationship with ANYONE.


Quote
The visual novel elements will stay, so I don't know if it'll ever be to your liking. But I am planning on making the combat better and giving you more time to get to know the world and the characters before it ends.
Damn. Yeah, I'm not into visual novels. And...if I'm not mistaken, in Sin Unsullied, when you try to advance your relationship with someone, the event you share with that person is also based on the time of day, isn't it? If that is how it works, kinda makes it more frustrating for me, since I'd like to get as much out of the story as I can. I guess people that enjoy visual novels are supposed to be happy with what they're given based off their options, but I'm not like that; I want the whole thing.

Oh, also...
Spoiler: show
Does it ever get explained how Aiden was able to lure a Nightmare to Lee, and how Fayte was the only one that knew about the Nightmare's presence? Because it seemed to me that when Nightmares make their way into the real world, they can be seen, right? I mean, that one woman that was getting attacked could see it.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Elke on December 22, 2014, 04:38:38 PM
@Elke, naw. I've been more focused on writing novels lately. I'm planning on remaking the game from scratch in unity sometime in the next couple years though :)

Gotcha! :D What have you been writing, if I may ask? and Good luck!
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on December 22, 2014, 07:35:42 PM
@Abrom,
Ah ok, I can see how things would be interpreted that way. Because I like fayte, I'm gonna defend her a bit here :P The scene with Aiden, yes, she thought Aiden was hot. But she was talking about it to tease Lee. Lee, being immature, reacted poorly to it, which sorta spoiled the mood and she decided to wait for another time to kiss him. If I remember right, three months have passed since Fayte became a Reaper. I always imagined that by the time Lee makes a contract, Fayte and Ember have been going out for just a couple weeks. They haven't had sex, but they do sleep next to eachother and have kissed. Being bisexual doesn't mean she's fine with any sensual relationship, Fayte just doesn't prefer one gender over another. She just went through a rather rough breakup, and Reapers aren't really allowed to spend time in the real world. So Fayte thinks she's never going to see Lee again. Her options are limited, and Ember's lack of emotional drama appeals to Fayte after what she just went through with Lee.

As for the time of day thing, naw, the time of day doesn't effect the cut-scenes you get. I took a lot of inspiration from harvest moon and person with how the cutscenes work. Once you get a character's affection to a certain point, you are allowed to see their next cutscene. Though you have to work really hard to finish any character's route in the time allotted, so I'm going to tweak that a bit.

Also,
Spoiler: show

That's a cutscene I was going to add in but didn't have time. Aiden spent a few months following Lee and Fayte around to get a general feel for their schedules. He finds out a time where they're supposed to meet up in a romantic spot up in the mountains and has a Tromuli help him lure a nightmare to cross her path. She knows what they are, and knows Lee is already there. The Tromuli is like "Ah, what a shame. It seems the Nightmare has caught the scent of a human up ahead. He'll likely be devoured before I can get a Reaper to him." And convinces her that the only way she can save Lee is to become a Reaper. Aiden doesn't do any of the convincing, so she doesn't suspect a thing. And even if she did know it was a setup, she  cares enough about Lee that I suspect she would have gone through with it anyways to save him.


Thanks for being so specific though :D I want people to actually like Fayte, so identifying specific bits of characterization that don't mesh well with you really helps me in seeing problems in the narrative.

@Elke, The past couple months, I've been working on a story that is (very very very loosely) based on the vocaloid song Servant of Evil. I wrote 50k words in it for NaNoWriMo, and it's called Oathbound. I was able to make the main character less of an annoying prick than Lee ended up being, though I feel I'm having problems making his little sister likable. So as she's getting more screentime in the latter part of the book, I'm trying to show more scenes where she's actually happy (as opposed to the angry stern attitude she puts up as a defense).
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Abrom on December 22, 2014, 09:00:38 PM
Hey, no problem. I know you can get a lot more out of specific details than just a general overlay of things.
I kinda already knew the reasoning behind Fayte's actions, but her attraction to all the main characters, coupled along with her barmaid past, just made her seem like someone that you/Lee shouldn't get attached to.
When I played the game, I had bounced back and forth between raising my relationship with Ember and Fayte. I advanced my relationship several times with Fayte, since I was curious to learn about her story. I went a few times with Ember, but I gave up on her, since it seemed that I wasn't going to get any story out of her, and instead, it was just going to be her trying to drive home that she wants Hot Lesbian Action with Fayte. I mean, really, she teased me with HLA more than the WWE (been many years since I watched wrestling, and I don't know if they still try to lure in viewers with girl on girl action, but I imagine that they do). I only hung out with Aiden once, and it turned out to just be this comedic and sarcastic back-and-forth. I was left with an impression that that's how most of my time with him would play out, and I wouldn't really get as much story out of it as I wanted, so I didn't bother with him again.
But, really, my biggest complaint was the blame game that the characters kept playing. It seemed like a cheap way of trying to create extra drama between two characters, even when it was very clear that the blame shouldn't have cast that way. Out of all the times it happened, the biggest example of this abuse that I can think of is...
Spoiler: show
When Lee was blamed for awakening evil Edmund.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Elke on December 22, 2014, 10:56:41 PM
Oh I love that song! Dang that's a lot of words! :D Are you keeping with the same plot? Or changing it? (Can I read it when you finish?)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on December 23, 2014, 12:56:34 AM
@Elke, I'm surprised I was able to write so many in a month o.o I'm also surprised it's taken more than 50k words to tell a story based on a 5 minute song XD  All the elements of the plot are there, but I've had to add A LOT to make it my own and a story fit for a novel. So it's more inspired by Servant of Evil than based on it.  I'll have tiny allusions to the inspiration (like keeping the characters dressed in the color associated with their role in pivotal scenes, having the character based on Rin say "Now, bow to me" and "oh, it's tea time", etc.) and sure! You can read it when I finish! :D

@Abrom, ah yeah! That part of scene you brought up in the spoiler tag was pretty poorly handled. Aiden's reveal of what happened, along with Fayte blaming Lee for what was happening was clumsily executed. I was swiftly coming up upon the deadline and realized I needed all that information in there but didn't have time to make any proper cutscenes for it >.>

Funny thing is, you actually get a lot more story out of Aiden than you do out of either of the girls lol! There's a lot of goofing around on his part, but you find out the most about the world and story via Aiden. I'm planning on making the time "until the world ends" be two weeks or so. That'll give more time to get comfortable with the gameplay mechanics, try out different character routes, and also let me stick in more mandatory cutscenes so I can give players more information without having massive info dump cutscenes (like that one where the Tromuli explains about the mechanics of stabbing nightmares in the face)

The thing I'm hoping will help increase engagement the most is give the player a bit more control over Lee's personality early on. My current plan is to add an "angst-o-meter". Depending on the things you choose to have Lee say, he will react in stressful cutscenes accordingly. Like the early scene where he breaks Ali's shin. If you've had Lee take his anger out on people, he'll break Ali's shin by getting carried away in practice. If, on the other hand, you've played him as being more mature about the breakup, that particular accident won't happen. I thought of this after watching some of my friends play. During the character cutscenes, they always picked the angry angsty answers, because Lee already had an established personality by the time they got control of him.

I'm also planning on breaking up the beginning sequences by giving the player control of Fayte for a tutorial mission. I think I could use this to show her not latching onto Ember right away. Showing her outside of the drama her and Lee's interaction make might help her seem less shallow and angry. What do you think?
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Abrom on December 23, 2014, 07:33:51 AM
Quote
I'm also planning on breaking up the beginning sequences by giving the player control of Fayte for a tutorial mission. I think I could use this to show her not latching onto Ember right away. Showing her outside of the drama her and Lee's interaction make might help her seem less shallow and angry. What do you think?
I think that would be a great idea. Because as it is, the good things about Fayte seem to have the same, or even less, facetime as the things about her that could be interpreted in a bad way. Instead of it just being told in a sentence, from Ember, about how Fayte was hurt and how she talks about Lee all the time...being able to actually see it, could make me feel more for her. This would also be a great opportunity to make Ember a bit more human, instead of an animal in heat. I mean, I get it, she's pervy. Those people exist. But, I don't think that should be the basis of Fayte and Ember's relationship. Being able to actually see Ember make a connection with Fayte, via true care and compassion, would also make me feel for Ember as well. And, I don't know if we would get this story in this part as well, but hearing about Ember's backstory would be helpful. Or is that something that's revealed at the finale of Ember's relationship with Lee? Seems like Fayte would have definitely heard it before dating Ember, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be shared with the viewer at that point.

Also, any chance on extending the three month gap in between Lee and Fayte's breakup, and their reuniting? It just seems like a couple months is such a short time for Fayte to give up on seeing the real world and Lee again. It could also make Lee's depression over the matter seem like even more of a concern, and emphasize just how torn up about it he is. Maybe go with six months?
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Elke on December 23, 2014, 11:39:03 AM
@Elke, I'm surprised I was able to write so many in a month o.o I'm also surprised it's taken more than 50k words to tell a story based on a 5 minute song XD  All the elements of the plot are there, but I've had to add A LOT to make it my own and a story fit for a novel. So it's more inspired by Servant of Evil than based on it.  I'll have tiny allusions to the inspiration (like keeping the characters dressed in the color associated with their role in pivotal scenes, having the character based on Rin say "Now, bow to me" and "oh, it's tea time", etc.) and sure! You can read it when I finish! :D

Haha, that is surprising its taking so many words, but it must be pretty thorough then ;D I like the idea of little allusions! Sounds promising~~~
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Abrom on December 23, 2014, 01:40:25 PM
Quote
@Elke, I'm surprised I was able to write so many in a month o.o I'm also surprised it's taken more than 50k words to tell a story based on a 5 minute song XD
I imagine that you're referring to this version? (Didn't listen through it all the way, hurts my ears too much.) -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYJATjB88lI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYJATjB88lI)
The ONLY good version I found of any part of the Story Of Evil, would be this -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1i7_MzRAqo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1i7_MzRAqo)
Other than that, whether it's an english dub or not, the vocals are just so high pitched in every version that it's literally painful to listen to :/ I wish there were some better versions out there...but, then again, maybe not; this does look like one of the most depressing things I've ever seen.

P.S. - You're really into the whole 'noble family' theme, aren't you legacyblade?
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on December 23, 2014, 03:27:23 PM
@Elke, glad you think it sounds promising :) The biggest change between my story and servant of evil is that the Len character is 12 years older than the Rin one. I had to come up with some sort of reason for the girl to inherit over the boy. So I decided to make him a bastard. He was first in line to inherit, because the queen was barren. But once she actually bore a child, assassins were hired to take out Len. I needed him to be old enough for an oath to watch out for his sister to actually mean something to him (a toddler deciding he'll protect his sister won't give his life to it. A teen might take his oaths seriously enough to). I could have made Rin a bit older, but I like the idea of her not knowing Len is her brother. After Len goes through with killing Miku, they'll have a big confrontation in which he lets slip that he's her brother and that she screwed up his life by being born. I'm almost to the part where I get to write that scene, and I'm super excited :P

@Abrom, yeah, a lot of vocaloid songs are WAAAY to high pitched. You might enjoy the Nico Nico chorus version, or the version done by the voice used to make the Rin and Len samples (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKpwEnSGcpI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKpwEnSGcpI)) It's transposed to a more human key :P It IS a rather depressing story, but it's also a touching one. And I like depressing stuff, so...lol. I love it.

And wow o.o I never realized how every story idea I come up with lately usually stars someone at least connected to a noble house. I think it's partially due to my upbringing (my grandpa was extremely rich, and was old enough that he still had that sort of mindset. He even tried to arrange a marriage between me and the daughter of some other rich dude to consolidate power lol), and also partially due to the fact that I think there have been more than enough farm hands from little villages as our main characters :P

Quote
I think that would be a great idea. Because as it is, the good things about Fayte seem to have the same, or even less, facetime as the things about her that could be interpreted in a bad way. Instead of it just being told in a sentence, from Ember, about how Fayte was hurt and how she talks about Lee all the time...being able to actually see it, could make me feel more for her. This would also be a great opportunity to make Ember a bit more human, instead of an animal in heat. I mean, I get it, she's pervy. Those people exist. But, I don't think that should be the basis of Fayte and Ember's relationship. Being able to actually see Ember make a connection with Fayte, via true care and compassion, would also make me feel for Ember as well. And, I don't know if we would get this story in this part as well, but hearing about Ember's backstory would be helpful. Or is that something that's revealed at the finale of Ember's relationship with Lee? Seems like Fayte would have definitely heard it before dating Ember, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be shared with the viewer at that point.

You do see a lot more of why she acts the way she does if you go down her route. A big part of why she is so vocal with Lee about her relationship with Fayte is because she's trying to diffuse the situation. After all the pain Lee caused Fayte, Ember isn't exactly his biggest fan. But rather than being mad at Lee, she's acting like they're best buddies and bragging about her relationship. There aren't many Reapers, and they all have to live together for the short time they're alive. The other reason she's so forward in her pursuit of Fayte is that they don't live very long. She decided she loved Fayte, and either of them could die at any time (they're both fighting Nightmares on a daily basis). So she wants to make the most of the time they have instead of taking things slowly.

So yeah, she'll be a bit less pervy from Fayte's POV, particularly before Ember decides to pursue Fayte. And I like your idea about showing Fayte complain to Ember all the time about Lee. (not really ALL the time, but show it at least once) That'll help drive home that she's hurting too, and also make it clear to the player that Fayte is still in love with Lee.

Quote
Also, any chance on extending the three month gap in between Lee and Fayte's breakup, and their reuniting? It just seems like a couple months is such a short time for Fayte to give up on seeing the real world and Lee again. It could also make Lee's depression over the matter seem like even more of a concern, and emphasize just how torn up about it he is. Maybe go with six months?

Three months is already pushing it a bit.
Spoiler: show

Aiden strongly suspects Lee will have the same power as Edmund. And since there are so few Reapers these days, he REALLY needs any advantage they can get. If you go down Aiden's route, you find out that he also believes Lee will be like Edmund in personality too. He thinks he'll make men aspire to be Reapers, rather than it just being the last ditch effort of desperate people with nowhere else to go. He ends up pretty pissed off that Lee doesn't care about being a Reaper and that he's not the inspiring leader his grandfather was.

So if the plan with Fayte didn't pan out quickly enough, he would have been trying other things to get Lee to become a Reaper. Being in a weird shadow world fighting monsters would make time feel a lot slower. Three months might not be much for someone living a normal month, but in that situation, three months would feel like AGES. Plus the other Reapers are telling her that she most likely won't be alive much longer, and that Aiden is the only Reaper who's ever really allowed out into the real world. So between how long it'll have felt to her and the things the other Reapers tell her, I think she's justified in thinking she'll never see Lee again. And he did treat her like crap, so she wouldn't really feel any sort of obligation towards him.


I might have to send you a copy of the story I'm writing (Oathbound) when it's finished and get your feedback, lol. I feel like I get a lot out of your criticism.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Abrom on December 23, 2014, 06:02:25 PM
Quote
my grandpa was extremely rich, and was old enough that he still had that sort of mindset. He even tried to arrange a marriage between me and the daughter of some other rich dude to consolidate power lol
Wtf? Does that stuff still happen?
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Three months might not be much for someone living a normal month, but in that situation, three months would feel like AGES. Plus the other Reapers are telling her that she most likely won't be alive much longer, and that Aiden is the only Reaper who's ever really allowed out into the real world. So between how long it'll have felt to her and the things the other Reapers tell her, I think she's justified in thinking she'll never see Lee again. And he did treat her like crap, so she wouldn't really feel any sort of obligation towards him.
I guess I never really felt like they were constantly doing battle, because in my whole playthrough, the only battles I did were the two, easy, scripted ones that you're forced to do, and then the final battle. I never felt like I was threatened by the thought world :/ Now, here's the thing about the 'feel' of time in that world. If time actually moved slower in that world than the real one, then I would understand how Fayte would give up in two months. If there was never a change in the time of day (especially if it was only darkness), which would make it very disorienting, then I would understand how Fayte would give up in two months. If I actually felt like every day was a constant and exhausting battle for survival, then I would understand how Fayte would give up in two months. But time is moving the same (if I understood you correctly), there ARE different times of the day, and since the thought world was as threatening as a weird, pink, camping site, I never got the feeling of hopelessness that Fayte experienced. And, since Aiden seemed to handle himself fine, and then he mentioned that everyone was about as powerful as he was...it just seemed like a cakewalk.
Perhaps one idea could be that you engage in a battle with the Nightmares after every interaction. Of course, I would only recommend this if you have a solid battle system. And, if you can't make a successful real-time battle system, you can always fall back on well-made turn based battles. RPGMaker works well for that; if done right, it can be very engaging, and it's got to be easier on the creator, since that's pretty much what it was made to do. I mean, if you were given these randomly generated battles after each interaction, where a fair amount (dare I say majority?) of the battles would be these intense miniboss-to-epicboss fights for survival, then I think that would get the point across about how dangerous it is to be a Reaper.
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I might have to send you a copy of the story I'm writing (Oathbound) when it's finished and get your feedback, lol. I feel like I get a lot out of your criticism.
I guess I'd be willing to give it a shot. To be honest though, I'm not much of a book reader. The only real reading that I do is with a gaming magazine while I'm sitting on the can :/ I need animation to draw me into a story. That's kinda why I'm doing my writing in more of the format of a script, because I do hope that one day it'll come to life via RPGMaker or whatnot.
But anyway, like I said, I can try to give it a read. But...I mean...this is a very depressing story, right? Am I going to feel like a pile of shit after reading it?

Oh, something else just came to my mind. In Fayte's tutorial, if you weren't planning on introducing any other Reapers, then I think you should change your mind, and here's why - You mention that Fayte keeps being told from the other Reapers that she probably won't get to see the real world again, but the only Reapers we even know of are Ember and Aiden, in which, half of those people are actually visiting the real world on a regular basis. You also mention, via Aiden I believe, that Reapers nowadays are people who have given up on life and pretty much decided to fight Nightmares, with the intention of dying. So, I think you should have a few other Reapers in Fayte's tutorial, and they should be these very depressing people that are hard to get along with. That would definitely make Ember's upbeat and affectionate attitude toward Fayte seem all that more impressive. Then, through these difficult battles, you could have the other Reapers die these horrific deaths, one by one. It might even help to just have one of them hang themselves or commit suicide in some way. I think that would really get the hopelessness feel across to the viewer. This all might make Fayte's tutorial more indepth than what you were planning, but I think it's necessary to establish the feel of the world, and heighten the viewer's feelings for Fayte and Ember.

P.S. -
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also partially due to the fact that I think there have been more than enough farm hands from little villages as our main characters :P
I actually feel like I've had enough nobles as main characters! Looking back on games and the few animes that I've seen this year, there have been a fair amount of rich, noble themed characters.
And, yeah, we due tend to put AT LEAST a little of ourselves into our characters. In the story that I'm creating, the main character actually is, more or less, a farm hand from a little village :/ But, that's also what my life pretty much is as well. Lol, you're the noble, and I'm the farm hand.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on December 24, 2014, 02:46:47 PM
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Wtf? Does that stuff still happen?

Sorta. My parents were determined to raise us kids as regular middle class people, even though they had tons of money. But some of my cousins have lived a more modern version of noble life. You're very strongly encouraged to date in your economic level, and my grandparents kept trying their hardest to convince me to go out with the girl they'd picked for me :P So you don't get forced into the stuff, but depending on who the rich grandpa in your family is, you COULD get disowned if you went against his wishes. I remember there were a couple of my cousins that were forbidden to be in my grandpa's sight. It was weird :P

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I guess I never really felt like they were constantly doing battle, because in my whole playthrough, the only battles I did were the two, easy, scripted ones that you're forced to do, and then the final battle. I never felt like I was threatened by the thought world :/ Now, here's the thing about the 'feel' of time in that world. If time actually moved slower in that world than the real one, then I would understand how Fayte would give up in two months. If there was never a change in the time of day (especially if it was only darkness), which would make it very disorienting, then I would understand how Fayte would give up in two months. If I actually felt like every day was a constant and exhausting battle for survival, then I would understand how Fayte would give up in two months. But time is moving the same (if I understood you correctly), there ARE different times of the day, and since the thought world was as threatening as a weird, pink, camping site, I never got the feeling of hopelessness that Fayte experienced. And, since Aiden seemed to handle himself fine, and then he mentioned that everyone was about as powerful as he was...it just seemed like a cakewalk.
Perhaps one idea could be that you engage in a battle with the Nightmares after every interaction. Of course, I would only recommend this if you have a solid battle system. And, if you can't make a successful real-time battle system, you can always fall back on well-made turn based battles. RPGMaker works well for that; if done right, it can be very engaging, and it's got to be easier on the creator, since that's pretty much what it was made to do. I mean, if you were given these randomly generated battles after each interaction, where a fair amount (dare I say majority?) of the battles would be these intense miniboss-to-epicboss fights for survival, then I think that would get the point across about how dangerous it is to be a Reaper.

My original plan was to have each of the level grinding sessions be a little dungeon with a boss at the end. But I like the idea of more mandatory battles. I think I'll even have some of the cutscenes (probably with Aiden) be "interrupted" my a swarm of Nightmares. Also, I'm going to remake the game in 3D, so I should be able to make the dream world look a bit more surreal (there's only so much you can do with pixel art) I don't want to have a turn based battle system, as I've never really enjoyed those, but I might compromise and make an actiony turn based battle like Paper Mario or (the street pass game) Monster Manor. They have real time elements, but are still turn based.

I didn't realize that the dream world felt safe o.o So thanks for pointing that out to me!

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I guess I'd be willing to give it a shot. To be honest though, I'm not much of a book reader. The only real reading that I do is with a gaming magazine while I'm sitting on the can :/ I need animation to draw me into a story. That's kinda why I'm doing my writing in more of the format of a script, because I do hope that one day it'll come to life via RPGMaker or whatnot.
But anyway, like I said, I can try to give it a read. But...I mean...this is a very depressing story, right? Am I going to feel like a pile of shit after reading it?

It's going to be less depressing than game of thrones. It'll be a bit more lighthearted than the walking dead games too. But it WILL be depressing. I keep enough light hearted moments in there, and want it to have a more melancholy than depressing ending. So you shouldn't feel like crap after it.

If you're not really into reading books though, I won't make ya read it lol.

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Oh, something else just came to my mind. In Fayte's tutorial, if you weren't planning on introducing any other Reapers, then I think you should change your mind, and here's why - You mention that Fayte keeps being told from the other Reapers that she probably won't get to see the real world again, but the only Reapers we even know of are Ember and Aiden, in which, half of those people are actually visiting the real world on a regular basis. You also mention, via Aiden I believe, that Reapers nowadays are people who have given up on life and pretty much decided to fight Nightmares, with the intention of dying. So, I think you should have a few other Reapers in Fayte's tutorial, and they should be these very depressing people that are hard to get along with. That would definitely make Ember's upbeat and affectionate attitude toward Fayte seem all that more impressive. Then, through these difficult battles, you could have the other Reapers die these horrific deaths, one by one. It might even help to just have one of them hang themselves or commit suicide in some way. I think that would really get the hopelessness feel across to the viewer. This all might make Fayte's tutorial more indepth than what you were planning, but I think it's necessary to establish the feel of the world, and heighten the viewer's feelings for Fayte and Ember.

I was planning on introducing a couple more characters. And I was planning on killing off at least one of them lol. Maybe I should have there be about ten Reapers when Fayte becomes one, and most of them get killed off by a surprise attack from a particularly nasty Nightmare. I was going to save at least one death to happen midway through the game. I'm going to try and make a girl EVERYONE will like and care about, then have her die early-ish. It'll help get across that main characters can die. And it should also help with the dream world not seeming threatening enough :D

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I actually feel like I've had enough nobles as main characters! Looking back on games and the few animes that I've seen this year, there have been a fair amount of rich, noble themed characters.
And, yeah, we due tend to put AT LEAST a little of ourselves into our characters. In the story that I'm creating, the main character actually is, more or less, a farm hand from a little village :/ But, that's also what my life pretty much is as well. Lol, you're the noble, and I'm the farm hand.

I think maybe fiction in general is moving towards focusing on rich characters for a little while. But off the top of my head, the only really rich characters I remember in any anime I watched this year have been Rin from Fate/Stay Night, Iona (however you spell it) from Iona of the Dawn, and...hmmmm. Was Nisekoi this year? I know a lot of shows feature rich characters, but they're usually not the main character. Or if they are, they act like a normal poor person and shun their noble life.
And hey! There's nothing wrong with the farm hand being the main character. I just feel like I've read too many where a normal everyday guy is the main, so I want to write something different. One story I'm also working on has the main character as a monster who's a noble's pet mercenary. He's less than a slave. I find writing him to be refreshing too. I can't ever see myself writing a luke skywalker though.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Abrom on December 24, 2014, 06:47:52 PM
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Sorta. My parents were determined to raise us kids as regular middle class people, even though they had tons of money. But some of my cousins have lived a more modern version of noble life. You're very strongly encouraged to date in your economic level, and my grandparents kept trying their hardest to convince me to go out with the girl they'd picked for me :P So you don't get forced into the stuff, but depending on who the rich grandpa in your family is, you COULD get disowned if you went against his wishes. I remember there were a couple of my cousins that were forbidden to be in my grandpa's sight. It was weird :P
Yeah, that definitely sounds weird :/
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I was planning on introducing a couple more characters. And I was planning on killing off at least one of them lol. Maybe I should have there be about ten Reapers when Fayte becomes one, and most of them get killed off by a surprise attack from a particularly nasty Nightmare. I was going to save at least one death to happen midway through the game. I'm going to try and make a girl EVERYONE will like and care about, then have her die early-ish. It'll help get across that main characters can die. And it should also help with the dream world not seeming threatening enough :D
Oh, taking the Final Fantasy 7 Aerith route, I like it :) I guess my one concern would be - Will this chick exist as a Reaper before Ember and Fayte hook up? If so, then is she going to be such a nice, likable character, that not only would she draw Ember's affection away from Fayte, but also give Fayte hope? Because it seems pretty important that Fayte should be at the end of her rope, in order for Ember to come in, cheer her up, and allow Fayte to accept her, even though she just went through a painful breakup. Painful breakups tend to make people shy away from close relationships, so for Fayte to accept Ember so soon, you got to make me believe that Ember seems like someone really special to Fayte.

As long as the dream world becomes a bit more dangerous, you beef up and stay true to the hopelessness feel (make sure that the extra Reapers aren't cheerful), and we get some insight into Fayte and Ember's true relationship, I think this should shape up to be pretty good :)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on December 24, 2014, 08:23:36 PM
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Oh, taking the Final Fantasy 7 Aerith route, I like it  I guess my one concern would be - Will this chick exist as a Reaper before Ember and Fayte hook up? If so, then is she going to be such a nice, likable character, that not only would she draw Ember's affection away from Fayte, but also give Fayte hope? Because it seems pretty important that Fayte should be at the end of her rope, in order for Ember to come in, cheer her up, and allow Fayte to accept her, even though she just went through a painful breakup. Painful breakups tend to make people shy away from close relationships, so for Fayte to accept Ember so soon, you got to make me believe that Ember seems like someone really special to Fayte.

Ember is more of a rebound for Fayte. Some people jump quickly into a new relationship after a bad breakup. Ember is nice and doesn't come with a lot of drama. Plus the other girl won't swing that way, so she'd not be an option. Fayte IS attracted to Ember. All Reapers are perfect models of beauty (whatever the person sees as the ideal version of themselves), so Ember is hot. She isn't really in love with her, but wants to. There won't be lots of options, and Ember is so nice and relaxed (but also agressive and flattering). Plus I don't think Fayte would be attracted to a pure ray of sunlight type character. She's a story teller and in love with Lee. So she'd be attracted to people she sees as interested. She'd get bored of an Aerith type character pretty quick.

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As long as the dream world becomes a bit more dangerous, you beef up and stay true to the hopelessness feel (make sure that the extra Reapers aren't cheerful), and we get some insight into Fayte and Ember's true relationship, I think this should shape up to be pretty good
Alright! Thanks for all the feedback. I'm excited to finish writing Oathbound so I can get back to working on Sin Unsullied! I'm finally sure the way to go about fixing the story (all I knew before was I needed some flashbacks from when Lee and Fayte were still happy in their relationship. I have a really cute flashback to when they met planned)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Abrom on December 24, 2014, 10:02:57 PM
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Ember is more of a rebound for Fayte. Some people jump quickly into a new relationship after a bad breakup. Ember is nice and doesn't come with a lot of drama. Plus the other girl won't swing that way, so she'd not be an option. Fayte IS attracted to Ember. All Reapers are perfect models of beauty (whatever the person sees as the ideal version of themselves), so Ember is hot. She isn't really in love with her, but wants to. There won't be lots of options, and Ember is so nice and relaxed (but also agressive and flattering). Plus I don't think Fayte would be attracted to a pure ray of sunlight type character. She's a story teller and in love with Lee. So she'd be attracted to people she sees as interested. She'd get bored of an Aerith type character pretty quick.
Whoa whoa whoa, see, this is the type of stuff that makes me think that Fayte's a slut. Are you trying to say that Fayte's relationship with Ember really is shallow and based on physical looks? Because you just made it sound like their relationship is based on a sexual attraction...yet, Fayte isn't interested in sex :/ I'm getting missed messages here!
Look, if you want me to feel for Fayte, don't make her do things for the wrong reasons. Now, what I mean by that, is that her relationship with Lee was supposed to be serious, right? I mean, by the sounds of it, they knew each other for a long time, and even though it was only starting to get to the point of being sexual, she was already very committed to him. Now, if Lee and Fayte had a short and shallow relationship, and she went on the rebound after the break up, that would be fine, no big deal, no strings attached (kinda slutty, but whatever). But, that's not the case; hell, Fayte became a Reaper FOR HIM! So, anyway, after coming off of a breakup with someone that they were in a serious, long term relationship with, and going for a rebound shortly afterwards, there's threes reasons that come to mind as to why one would do this.
1. They're a damaged person that doesn't want to be alone, so they'll be with anyone. BAD REASON. (I apologize if I phrased this in a demeaning way and it offends anyone. That was not my intention.)
2. They're trying to get back at their ex. BAD REASON.
3. They've known a friend for a long time and realize that it might be worth a shot with them. Not really a good reason, but you can put a positive spin on it.
Obviously, 3 is not going to apply to Fayte. And the way you make it sound, is that Fayte just wants to be with anyone that's okay to deal with...and attractive. You know, something a slut would do :/ I also never meant that Fayte would be attracted to the Aerith character (I said Ember would be). What I meant is that this Aerith shouldn't be a beacon of hope. She shouldn't be a caring friend (to Fayte, specifically). Because, although I didn't mention this early, I think there could be another reason why someone would go for a rebound after a serious relationship.
4. They're trapped in a shadow world, battling against horrible creatures. There's no hope of getting back. Everyone around them is dead or dying. The person that inspired them to come to this place never hears them out, and is hardly around (Aiden). There's only one person there that even shows kindness to them (Ember). That person listens, cares, shows lots of affection. Despite the pain and love that they still have over their previous relationship, that person is persistent about moving forward with them. It looks like that person or them could die any day, so why not give it a shot before it's too late? ACCEPTABLE.
You kept trying to get the point across to me that this relationship didn't seem like such a bad idea given the circumstances, so make me believe that. Fayte's relationship with Ember should be a last ditch effort at happiness (Ember mentions how Fayte wasn't happy before). Ember should be the one that pursued Fayte, as according to her personality (especially since Fayte shouldn't be pursuing anyone after her breakup). Make Ember far more appealing to Fayte than anyone else she's in contact with at the time, and I DON'T MEAN SEXUALLY! That's just a bonus :)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on December 24, 2014, 11:09:29 PM
The super attractive nature of all the Reapers is just a bonus. Yes, Fayte was deeply in love with Lee. She gave up her life (which was just finally starting to go well) to save him. Then when she tries to talk to him about it, rather than listening to her, he just assumes the worst and blows up at her (assuming that she was bored of him and became a Reaper for a shot at getting with Aiden). Think how you'd feel in that situation for a moment. You'd be emotionally crushed. And very angry. Fayte doesn't want to love Lee anymore after how he treated her, but you can't turn your feelings for someone off just because they were horrible to you. She's not using Ember, but she's not in love with her either. She was looking for a way to be happy and get over Lee, as well as a source of comfort in the depressing shadow of a life she now has. It wasn't a "I'm in love with you now, Ember. Let's hump like bunnies!" It was her deciding to give a shot to a relationship with the fun and cheerful, but snarky and still interesting, girl who's expressing an interest in her. Look at their behavior the first time we see them together. Fayte is still holding back quite a lot. Ember gushing all over her, but Fayte still has quite a few walls up.

I've been through really bad breakups before and seen others go through them. The more serious and invested in the relationship they were, the more likely they are to rebound in a relationship that won't work. If you've just been dating someone for a few months and they break up with you (even in the meanest way possible), your heart isn't going to be as broken as if you have a messy breakup with your fiance after you find out she's cheating on you (no, Fayte and Lee weren't engaged).

Fayte has a lot of reasons for deciding to date Ember. I think trying to simplify her emotions to make her seem more pure would do a disservice to the character. I think this is just an issue of you not having seen all the bits I plan on adding though. It's not just a sexual thing, but both Ember and Fayte know this is just a rebound. It's why Ember doesn't get angry when...
Spoiler: show

after you beat Edmund, Fayte ends up confessing her love to Lee in a rather dramatic fashion. I can beat edmund with level one characters, so I won't spoil the ending for ya :P It's handled a bit clumsily, but I still think you should try and get to it.


Anyways, I hope ya like her a bit more once I actually have a new version of the game in place. I'm not going to try and make Fayte a pure unspoiled maiden (she is about eighteen when the game takes place. I don't know whether or not she's a virgin, but I assume she is with how long it takes her to get around to kissing Lee :P), but I do hope she comes off like less of a slut to you and less of a bi**h to other people :P Cuz I still really like Fayte XD
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Abrom on December 25, 2014, 05:03:03 PM
Okay, I guess I'm just going to have to trust that you know what you're doing. I've also seen what a bad breakup does to a serious relationship, and if the person is using their head, they know not to start dating on a fling. Like I said, rebounds after serious relationships generally aren't done for the right reasons. But, you're right, I haven't seen what your new plan is. Perhaps you could turn Fayte's flaws into a reason for me to care for her. I mean, character flaws are often what allow the viewer to care for that person. Just has to be presented the right way. So, it's all up to you, man. I just have to wait and see :) Visual novel or not, I'll definitely give it a play and tell you what I think.
It's a shame that you had to wait this long to get some real feedback on the game. Wish people would realize that being honest about a project's faults is some of the best advice a creator can hear, friend or not. Just don't be cruel about it, you know?

That ending mentioned in the spoiler - I figured that's what it is was, based on it being referred to as 'the happy ending.'
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Elke on December 25, 2014, 05:14:42 PM
@Elke, glad you think it sounds promising :) The biggest change between my story and servant of evil is that the Len character is 12 years older than the Rin one. I had to come up with some sort of reason for the girl to inherit over the boy. So I decided to make him a bastard. He was first in line to inherit, because the queen was barren. But once she actually bore a child, assassins were hired to take out Len. I needed him to be old enough for an oath to watch out for his sister to actually mean something to him (a toddler deciding he'll protect his sister won't give his life to it. A teen might take his oaths seriously enough to). I could have made Rin a bit older, but I like the idea of her not knowing Len is her brother. After Len goes through with killing Miku, they'll have a big confrontation in which he lets slip that he's her brother and that she screwed up his life by being born. I'm almost to the part where I get to write that scene, and I'm super excited :P

Oh! That is smart! How old is Rin then for her actually to take killing someone over a boy seriously? If he's that much older, will that cause a problem later when/if he dresses up as her (if you are continuing along that line)?
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on December 25, 2014, 06:28:05 PM
@elke, she's fourteen. Much older, and it'd seem rather silly. Len is older than her, but he has magic that let's him disguise himself. So he can look identical to her (I figured I needed to give him magic for that due to the age difference XD)

@Abrom, i've got some frank criticism too, but mostly about Lee and Edmund. (And some general game mechanic ideas). I know some people are level headed enough to not do something irrational after a breakup, but Fayte is very emotional. I'm going to try an make her seem like she's really vulnerable after why happened, rather than just comin across as pissed. I've been watching a lot of shows with tsunderes lately to figure out why it works really well sometimes, and why it is incredibly annoying others. I think for it to work, we have to be able to see that the cold/bratty side is just  a way to protect a very vulnerable side. So we need to be shown some dere rather early on or she'll come across as just a b***h.

I hope I can win ya over to liking Fayte with my next attempt lol!
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Abrom on December 26, 2014, 06:22:24 PM
I feel kinda invested in this now, and I was thinking about giving Sin Unsullied a more thorough playthrough, but I was only planning on doing it if you actually needed more feedback on any parts. Since you're doing a game remake, I know that you probably don't need to hear about any typos at this point. But, I don't know if you're planning on pretty much reusing scenes and lines that are already established. Is there anything that you think I should look at (you mentioned the ending earlier), or is anymore feedback even necessary at this point?

Edit - I was commenting in another thread and realized that what I had to say would be better suited here.

In regards to the voice acting, Sin Unsullied's intro was alright. The voice wasn't too bad, but it seemed to lack some emotion. I mean, it didn't feel like someone was actually saying those words to another person and meaning it; it sounded more like how someone would read lines from a book, to children, for a bedtime story. I wouldn't say that it actually added anything to the game, especially since the text presented the same message. I chuckled a couple times during it, but that's pretty much just because I couldn't believe that someone was actually trying to do it. Voice acting doesn't work in these type of games, because we don't have a mouth and facial expressions to go with it. It just seems out of place; it always will. To kinda prove my point, here's someone's attempt at Sin Unsullied (I didn't watch the whole thing) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbrqAyWN8u4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbrqAyWN8u4)

I'm pretty sure that having that voice in this game probably means something to you. But, as far as trying to 'fix' it, I don't have a good answer for that................Doesn't mean that I don't have any ideas though :) I think that maybe you could do without the text, so people feel that the voice is necessary. Have the screen be black for the voice's entirety. However, I still think we should have some sort of visual to associate the voice with. Perhaps we could have Fayte, against a black background, carrying the letter, or writing it out (since that's what it's in reference to, right?). I would be leaning towards the writing part, if there was a suitable animation to go with it. Blinking eyes could also be a visual to draw our attention. Especially if she were to keep her eyes closed while she says a difficult part to express, then opening them to write it out. Similar things could be done for carrying the letter, if you did decide to go with that. Since you have music playing at the title screen, and after the intro, I don't think there should be any music while she's speaking, especially since it's hard to get the same audio quality between both of them. Musical silence at this part could also heighten our attention to her voice. If we also got it across that these words were being written down, instead of actually spoken, you could probably get away with using the same recording that you have, since it's only what she WANTS to say, and not what she's actually saying face-to-face.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on December 27, 2014, 01:31:29 PM
I like your ideas on how to make it more clear that it's a letter, I'll take some of em into account when I remake it.

And as things stand, I'm planning to make the remake 3D. Dunno how that'll pan out, but if I can, I'll be adding voices to the regular dialog. If that doesn't pan out, I'm planning on adding visual novel style portraits overtop the action, which I think would make the voices seem less outta place.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Abrom on December 27, 2014, 08:45:25 PM
I like your ideas on how to make it more clear that it's a letter, I'll take some of em into account when I remake it.

And as things stand, I'm planning to make the remake 3D. Dunno how that'll pan out, but if I can, I'll be adding voices to the regular dialog. If that doesn't pan out, I'm planning on adding visual novel style portraits overtop the action, which I think would make the voices seem less outta place.

Oh boy, good luck with that. If you have any chance of drawing people in with the voice acting, then you and whoever else is going to be lending their voices, have some real emotional work ahead of you. Because half-assed portrayals of characters will utterly doom the game right from the start. Hell, even if you do it right, I still question whether a majority of the game's viewers would accept it. But, here's to hoping that you can pull it off :)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Dev J Chand on December 28, 2014, 04:44:34 AM
Voice acting doesn't work in these type of games, because we don't have a mouth and facial expressions to go with it. It just seems out of place; it always will.

I've been off for a while now, but I think I should respond to this.

No, voice acting doesn't depend much on mouth and facial expressions, voice acting depends on the context it's used in, the way the characters are portrayed, the people who are being talked to etc. Simply putting text and having it voiced out doesn't mean the voice acting is bad or unnatural, it depends on the situation and the acting. More often than not, the facial expressions don't say much during normal dialogue anyway, it's only during situations where the character is having extreme feelings or is inert to something serious that it's spotted.

Personally, I always find it odd that films and TV shows put so much focus on the character faces, especially when they aren't using their faces for much. It also becomes very dull if a lot of exposition is done using only the character faces, and they aren't particularly expressive.

The issue here really is more of how the text or exposition is presented. If for example the exposition is from a dairy and the character is trying to express something but can't, then voicing out some parts of it in a shaky, hesitating manner can work.

The other issue is that reading text in most media isn't really exciting, especially a medium that expects you to move around and perform actions a lot i.e. video games. So you generally can't have too much of it, or it starts to slow down the pace and becomes very dull to listen to, or read.

Also, the video you linked isn't proof of anything, as it's just a person trying to make goofy voices of the game and not a serious attempt. One example isn't enough to  prove any hypothesis anyway.

In short, no voice acting text in simplistic 2D games with no mouth or facial animations can work, you just need to use it properly and place it well in the game.

Here's an example of voiced text done well. I hope you like it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKpAyc_GvPg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKpAyc_GvPg)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on December 28, 2014, 06:06:25 AM
@Abrom, I think most people prefer voices in games, lol. Just look at all the visual novels coming out of Japan. Almost all of the highly acclaimed ones have voice actors. I think rather than being offputting or distracting, voice acting that is at least passable adds to the immersion. Though I love To The Moon and Quintessence, so there's something to be said for non-voiced games too. I'll be paying VAs, so I'll be able to get more consistent quality than I did in darkness rebirth. Also, my writing isn't as cheesy as it was back the CD

But in the end, the people who dislike the voices need not suffer. For I will include a "voice volume" option:)

@Dev J Chand

Your post makes me want a thumbs up button! I'm a big anime fan, and I've always preferred when things in games are voiced. I can't comment on the quality of the voicec acting in the video you posted (I don't speak French, and haven't watched enough French films to know what sounds natural in French), but I agree that well done voice acting can greatly enhance a work. I don't think persona 4 would have been nearly as good without ita voices (even if some of them performances are cringe worty at points) and even the bad acting in the 3D sonic games did helpb sell the narrative a bit (though to be fair to Anton, that's 3D with facial expressions).

@both, you guys aren't actually that far apart in your opinion. You both think good voice acting coupled well with the visuals is a good thing. You just disagree on the exact things that make the voice acting qualify as stilted or out of place. I think with good visuals and voice acting, I can please you both with the results :)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Abrom on December 28, 2014, 03:59:57 PM
@legacyblade
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But in the end, the people who dislike the voices need not suffer. For I will include a "voice volume" option:)
That would be a very good idea.
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I can't comment on the quality of the voicec acting in the video you posted (I don't speak French, and haven't watched enough French films to know what sounds natural in French), but I agree that well done voice acting can greatly enhance a work.
Ditto.

@Dev J Chand
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Also, the video you linked isn't proof of anything, as it's just a person trying to make goofy voices of the game and not a serious attempt. One example isn't enough to  prove any hypothesis anyway.
It's the only video of Sin Unsullied that I could find, and her reaction to the voice acting was all I was referring to. Anyway, the main point that I was trying to make is that bad voicing would kill Sin Unsullied, no matter what else was good about it (the voice volume option could due away with this problem though). Big triple-A games might be able to get away with it if they have enough other positives about the game to keep the audience around, but I think a majority of people would agree that they would rather have text than atrocious voice acting. I mean, I imagine that most would prefer good voice acting over text, but if you can't do that, then why bother?
Secondly, like I said, I agree that good voice acting could help. I agree that how the voice is used is very important. But, I will still disagree that having a face to go with it doesn't matter. Yeah, it might not matter if we're hearing someone talk over a radio, but when I'm listening to two characters having a conversation, and their sprites are standing right before my eyes, I very much would like to see their facial expressions and mouths to go along with what they're saying; it helps sell the emotion even more to the viewer. I mean, I can no longer imagine about what that person's voice could sound like and how they're expressing those words, because giving them an actual voice takes that away from me. If you're going to tell me that's how that person sounds in that conversation, then don't stop there. Give me a face to go with it and physical expressions. You've already set the tone, now drive home the emotion with the visuals as well. Obviously, if the 'game' is just about reading letters, books, and whatnot, and the person is just talking out-loud to himself, his facial expressions and mouth aren't going to be a big role, since most people don't really rely on facial expressions when they're talking to themselves :/

P.S. - I just realized that I probably caused some confusion when I said:
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Voice acting doesn't work in these type of games
I wasn't referring to visual novels, I was referring to these RPGMaker games and those like it; these free games (with low quality visuals) made with some simple editor. But really, when I think about it, I could say that same thing about all free games that involve face to face conversations, which requires some kind of emotion. Hell, games that actually have a budget have a hard time getting voiced conversations right, and I've yet to hear of a free game that's managed it. Of course, there is no absolute rule about these things, and I imagine that there must be a free game out there with some decently (English) voiced conversations. If anyone knows of one, please share ^_^ And I'm not referring to those 'free' MMOs that make money in non-subscription based ways.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Dev J Chand on December 29, 2014, 02:56:01 AM
Anyway, the main point that I was trying to make is that bad voicing would kill Sin Unsullied, no matter what else was good about it (the voice volume option could due away with this problem though). Big triple-A games might be able to get away with it if they have enough other positives about the game to keep the audience around, but I think a majority of people would agree that they would rather have text than atrocious voice acting. I mean, I imagine that most would prefer good voice acting over text, but if you can't do that, then why bother?

This is not necessarily true. While people in general would favour good voice acting over bad, and some text over some poorly voice acted lines, there are cases where the narrative was badly acted, but was still well received. Deus Ex has really bad voice acting, with some overdone accents, but many people praised its story as a great one that is relevant even today.


I mean, I can no longer imagine about what that person's voice could sound like and how they're expressing those words, because giving them an actual voice takes that away from me. If you're going to tell me that's how that person sounds in that conversation, then don't stop there. Give me a face to go with it and physical expressions.

I have no problem with guessing about how the people speaking might look like, hell I enjoy doing it sometimes. I understand that you want a face to contextualize a person along with the voice, and infact, I would prefer it too if possible, because just having two sprites face each other and talk isn't the best narrative style, and it can get tiresome very quickly. But it's not necessary all the time, there are stealth games where you overhear people talking but don't actually see much of them because you're supposed to stay hidden. There are instances where you want to show some people talking but hide their looks, because they are involved in something important and you want to keep their identity a surprise. In such cases, showing facial expressions isn't necessary and it would detract from the feel of eavesdropping on conversations, or listening to some mysterious people I think.

Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Abrom on December 29, 2014, 12:06:17 PM
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I have no problem with guessing about how the people speaking might look like, hell I enjoy doing it sometimes. I understand that you want a face to contextualize a person along with the voice, and infact, I would prefer it too if possible, because just having two sprites face each other and talk isn't the best narrative style, and it can get tiresome very quickly. But it's not necessary all the time, there are stealth games where you overhear people talking but don't actually see much of them because you're supposed to stay hidden. There are instances where you want to show some people talking but hide their looks, because they are involved in something important and you want to keep their identity a surprise. In such cases, showing facial expressions isn't necessary and it would detract from the feel of eavesdropping on conversations, or listening to some mysterious people I think.
Yes, given the context of the situation, you wouldn't need to see faces. But for the majority of Sin Unsullied, with heated face to face conversations, if there's going to be voice acting, then I want faces.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on December 29, 2014, 12:34:03 PM
Just for the record, I was going to add visual novel style faces even if I just kept the sprites. Lol
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Abrom on December 29, 2014, 01:33:52 PM
Just for the record, I was going to add visual novel style faces even if I just kept the sprites. Lol
Are you going to make multiple faces with different emotions, or just one face to rule them all?
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on December 29, 2014, 04:49:55 PM
Multiple faces!! I honestly prefer the lack of a face to just one singular face. Especially if the character's one face to rule them all has an emotion. When someone's line is " I'm going to read your f****ing face off!!!!" And the face just shows the usual shy smile, it's annoying :P I'm thinking of maybe using live 2D for the faces.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Abrom on December 29, 2014, 09:03:39 PM
I had to look up what Live2d was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrLnF7CQ8Ac (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrLnF7CQ8Ac)
So it wouldn't be a still picture, it would have movement? Awesome :)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Elke on December 29, 2014, 11:02:16 PM
@elke, she's fourteen. Much older, and it'd seem rather silly. Len is older than her, but he has magic that let's him disguise himself. So he can look identical to her (I figured I needed to give him magic for that due to the age difference XD)

Gotchaaa, nice save XD
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Abrom on May 09, 2015, 09:33:12 PM
Quote
I wasn't referring to visual novels, I was referring to these RPGMaker games and those like it; these free games (with low quality visuals) made with some simple editor. But really, when I think about it, I could say that same thing about all free games that involve face to face conversations, which requires some kind of emotion. Hell, games that actually have a budget have a hard time getting voiced conversations right, and I've yet to hear of a free game that's managed it. Of course, there is no absolute rule about these things, and I imagine that there must be a free game out there with some decently (English) voiced conversations. If anyone knows of one, please share ^_^ And I'm not referring to those 'free' MMOs that make money in non-subscription based ways.
I just watched Markiplier as he started an Amnesia Custom Story with fairly good voice acting. I thought that the guy was alright, but found the lady's voice to be better - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOavpN6kjMA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOavpN6kjMA)
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Erenussocrates on July 17, 2017, 07:13:17 PM
Reminding myself to download and try this out sometime

other than that sorry for necroing
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: Legacyblade on July 17, 2017, 09:52:24 PM
Necropost is necro.

I did recently fix a gamebreaking bug and every typo I could find.

So like...yeah. It's slightly better now.
Title: Re: Sin Unsullied (Full version released!)
Post by: The Jassi-fricka-nation on August 17, 2017, 08:29:45 AM
Hey, I haven't been on here in about... How long has it been? ... How many posts do I even have?

Anyways, my brother, Abrom, was suggesting I try out this game so I went ahead and recorded myself doing a couple parts so far (as my channel content is largely RPG Maker stuff anyways).

https://vid.me/iieQ9 is the first part I have at the moment.

The video is scheduled at the moment and will also be public on Youtube later today, but Vidme lets me share scheduled videos easier than Youtube for early access stuff or something.

https://youtu.be/YgSQ8Ym04BQ will be up 3pm EST today (8/17/17).

So, yeah, hope I didn't ruin your game too much with my voices. Also, wanted to apologize for my face... I was very tired and still need to trim my beard. :) And I got pretty lazy with the thumbnail. 8)

Edit: And now for dual parts twos and stuff...

https://vid.me/00LWu & https://youtu.be/2Px7MmLdeMU