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Community (Misc.) => General => Debates/Serious Discussions => Topic started by: Sizzle on October 04, 2010, 09:06:31 AM

Title: How can America repair itself?
Post by: Sizzle on October 04, 2010, 09:06:31 AM
America deserves to maintain it's position with the biggest economy in history...How I believe it would be done?
First off I'd like to take troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq. We're spending way to much on wars that aren't worth it. The US has spent trillions of dollars on these wars since 2001 and it's time to stop. We need to cut back on our overall military strength, we don't need it right now.
23% sales tax. Abolish all forms of taxation with a simple 23% sales tax. Everyone, illegal or not will pay this tax. While I do say I need to do more homework on this, it sounds very promising.
Abolish unemployment benefits. I'm tired of picking up the slack for people, while I know some people actually deserve this, it's causing us too much as a country. The government shouldn't be babying it's citizens. You should be well prepared for anything in life, it's called a savings account and not going out every night spending your money.
Abolish these useless government agencies. An example of useless would be the department of energy. Their initial cause was to increase the United States clean energy use, today we use more fossil fuel than we did when the agency was formed, we also waste millions a year on this agency. There are plenty more like it.
Lower pay for government employees. Did you know when congress was first formed they were not paid? Now congressmen make millions a year, have private doctors, and tons of other benefits. Not needed, while I believe they should still get paid I don't believe they deserve millions a year, nor do I think they deserve private doctors paid by taxpayers.
Abolish bases in foreign lands. If the country cannot defend them selves I guess they don't deserve to be around. I'm tired of my tax going towards protecting countries like South Korea. I won't watch my country die for the sake of yours.
Lower spendings for medicare. This is by far one of our biggest expenses and biggest problems.
I won't mention social security because it will soon be a thing of the past.
Lastly, start pumping money into the education system. We're losing American jobs and the lower graduation rate isn't going to do anything for us in the future. We need to start thinking ahead and bring America back to what it was. Pioneers and innovators.

This is how I would go about fixing our problems. While there's more I'm not interested in writing a novel.
How would you guys fix America and what are your thoughts on mine.
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: Cyril on October 05, 2010, 10:30:23 PM
America deserves to maintain it's position with the biggest economy in history...How I believe it would be done?
I agree that Americans should try to help their economy, but that's because they're Americans. There's nothing inherently better about America that means that it needs to be on top. If we do our best, and someone else does their best and they beat us, then they win. Fair and square. But for the sake of argument, I'll continue.

First off I'd like to take troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq. We're spending way to much on wars that aren't worth it. The US has spent trillions of dollars on these wars since 2001 and it's time to stop. We need to cut back on our overall military strength, we don't need it right now.
Yeah, probably.

23% sales tax. Abolish all forms of taxation with a simple 23% sales tax. Everyone, illegal or not will pay this tax. While I do say I need to do more homework on this, it sounds very promising.
Except then we can't have graduated taxes on the rich. Why is that a good thing? It's simple.

The job of the government is to insure the happiness and wellbeing of its citizens. But studies have shown that the effects of income level on happiness cut off dramatically once you reach the poverty level (see The Science of Happiness, by Stefan Klein and Stephen Lehmann; can't get any more specific than that, it's been a while since I read it). That means that $1 in the hands of a starving family living on the streets has a much greater effect on their happiness than that $1 would have in the hands of Bill Gates. Therefore, the government is justified (to a point) in the redistribution of wealth. This isn't possible with only a sales tax.

Therefore, you're wrong.

Abolish unemployment benefits. I'm tired of picking up the slack for people, while I know some people actually deserve this, it's causing us too much as a country. The government shouldn't be babying it's citizens. You should be well prepared for anything in life, it's called a savings account and not going out every night spending your money.
There will always be economic inequality, so offering "a savings account" in replacement of unemployment benefits is like offering "go buy a glass of water" to starving in the middle of the Sahara. Also, employment isn't entirely under your control. There's always someone who could fire you.

Abolish these useless government agencies. An example of useless would be the department of energy. Their initial cause was to increase the United States clean energy use, today we use more fossil fuel than we did when the agency was formed, we also waste millions a year on this agency. There are plenty more like it.
Yup.

Lower pay for government employees. Did you know when congress was first formed they were not paid? Now congressmen make millions a year, have private doctors, and tons of other benefits. Not needed, while I believe they should still get paid I don't believe they deserve millions a year, nor do I think they deserve private doctors paid by taxpayers.
Uh-huh. Probably.

Abolish bases in foreign lands. If the country cannot defend them selves I guess they don't deserve to be around. I'm tired of my tax going towards protecting countries like South Korea. I won't watch my country die for the sake of yours.
Wait, so America "deserves" to be the #1 economy, but it does "deserve" to have bases abroad? HUH?

In an age with weapons technology like we have, being able to defend ourselves means not having to wait until the enemy is right at our doorstep.

Also, protecting people makes friends. And friends both (1) won't attack you, and (2) might help you defend yourself against enemies. IT'S GOOD TO HAVE FRIENDS.

Lower spendings for medicare. This is by far one of our biggest expenses and biggest problems.
I won't mention social security because it will soon be a thing of the past.
Yeah, I more or less agree with this one, too. Though only pending further investigation.

Lastly, start pumping money into the education system. We're losing American jobs and the lower graduation rate isn't going to do anything for us in the future. We need to start thinking ahead and bring America back to what it was. Pioneers and innovators.
I'm not sure about the funding aspect, but I would think that what we need is to reintroduce a culture of learning to the education system. You can throw as much money at it as you want, but it kids don't want to learn, then they won't. End of story.

Et tu, Sizzle?

//By the way, nice to meet you. I'm new here. :D
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: Merlandese on October 05, 2010, 10:50:08 PM
...
First off I'd like to take troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq. We're spending way to much on wars that aren't worth it. The US has spent trillions of dollars on these wars since 2001 and it's time to stop. We need to cut back on our overall military strength, we don't need it right now.
...
Abolish these useless government agencies...

I can't say much for your other points, but I have to agree with this one. I served in the military. It's the biggest waist of money I can think of. And every year they send a group of sergeants to fight for a huge percent in individual military pay when they already get paid an inordinate amount of money for what they do. Actually, I could easily turn this into a seven page rant/booklet on government spending, but I'll spare everyone and just say: I agree that we should cut government and military spending. But trust me, this issue has less to do with the war than people think. My squadron didn't by a 5,200 hundred dollar smoke-pit because of the war against terror.
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: Sizzle on October 06, 2010, 02:54:40 AM
@Cyril
Uh do you really understand the 23% sales tax? Not trying to sound mean please don't take offense.
All forms of tax are abolished except this. You don't pay property tax, you don't pay federal tax, you don't pay state  tax, etc. All you pay is 23 cent per dollar. This in turn ends many issues including immigrants not paying taxes, tax fraud, etc. You'll have more than enough money to pay 23 cent per dollar once your other taxes have been abolished. IMO it's a sure way to get the taxes.
Also your reply on removing America's bases from other countries doesn't really sound like it'd benefit our recovery. Most of these countries don't even want us there in the first place, don't even need us there in the first place, and don't like us at all. I don't really care for wasting my money for countries that don't like us. Defend themselves, everyone else has been doing it for thousands of years. Survival of the fittest plays in all roles of life.

@Mer Yeah I know, I'm also well aware of how the military waste money... My unit has people who aren't even deployable sitting around because they're on dead man's profile...still getting paid...very sad.
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: Reives on October 06, 2010, 04:25:14 AM
@Cyril
Uh do you really understand the 23% sales tax? Not trying to sound mean please don't take offense.
All forms of tax are abolished except this. You don't pay property tax, you don't pay federal tax, you don't pay state  tax, etc. All you pay is 23 cent per dollar. This in turn ends many issues including immigrants not paying taxes, tax fraud, etc. You'll have more than enough money to pay 23 cent per dollar once your other taxes have been abolished. IMO it's a sure way to get the taxes.
Also your reply on removing America's bases from other countries doesn't really sound like it'd benefit our recovery. Most of these countries don't even want us there in the first place, don't even need us there in the first place, and don't like us at all. I don't really care for wasting my money for countries that don't like us. Defend themselves, everyone else has been doing it for thousands of years. Survival of the fittest plays in all roles of life.
Reading Cyril's post, what he was saying about the 23% sales tax was that while it eliminates one problem, it arises a lot of other complications that would be even worse - specifically, it would result in people living poverty and bill gates to pay the exact same amount of tax. This would result in a significant loss of tax from the wealthy.

As for the military bases abroad - most if not all of those bases aren't actually altruistic missions to protect those countries, though they may be sold as such. They are really just strategic military positioning for U.S. itself. Pretty much every capable country does it to some degree, and it's a pretty vital chess piece.
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: Chiefie on October 06, 2010, 06:08:20 AM
America deserves to maintain it's position with the biggest economy in history...How I believe it would be done?
First off I'd like to take troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq. We're spending way to much on wars that aren't worth it. The US has spent trillions of dollars on these wars since 2001 and it's time to stop. We need to cut back on our overall military strength, we don't need it right now.
23% sales tax. Abolish all forms of taxation with a simple 23% sales tax. Everyone, illegal or not will pay this tax. While I do say I need to do more homework on this, it sounds very promising.
Abolish unemployment benefits. I'm tired of picking up the slack for people, while I know some people actually deserve this, it's causing us too much as a country. The government shouldn't be babying it's citizens. You should be well prepared for anything in life, it's called a savings account and not going out every night spending your money.
Abolish these useless government agencies. An example of useless would be the department of energy. Their initial cause was to increase the United States clean energy use, today we use more fossil fuel than we did when the agency was formed, we also waste millions a year on this agency. There are plenty more like it.
Lower pay for government employees. Did you know when congress was first formed they were not paid? Now congressmen make millions a year, have private doctors, and tons of other benefits. Not needed, while I believe they should still get paid I don't believe they deserve millions a year, nor do I think they deserve private doctors paid by taxpayers.
Abolish bases in foreign lands. If the country cannot defend them selves I guess they don't deserve to be around. I'm tired of my tax going towards protecting countries like South Korea. I won't watch my country die for the sake of yours.
Lower spendings for medicare. This is by far one of our biggest expenses and biggest problems.
I won't mention social security because it will soon be a thing of the past.
Lastly, start pumping money into the education system. We're losing American jobs and the lower graduation rate isn't going to do anything for us in the future. We need to start thinking ahead and bring America back to what it was. Pioneers and innovators.

This is how I would go about fixing our problems. While there's more I'm not interested in writing a novel.
How would you guys fix America and what are your thoughts on mine.

While I'm not American and don't see myself in a good enough position to comment, I have to agree with you to a certain extent. I agree with Reives on the bases in other countries issue, it's not much of a matter of protecting the other countries, but protecting your own country.

As for government employees' pay, as far as I've heard from my social studies teacher about high ranking government, what makes up most of their pay is the perks that come along with it, such as planes, food, lodging, where the sum of money in cash itself isn't as high as other countries, say here in Singapore. Here, the government is paid a huge lump sum and settle all the food lodging, transport things with this amount. Maybe the government could do without a few of these perks. Also, government's pays are derived using a certain formula here in Singapore, which involves taking the highest pay of each professional group or something like that and doing a bit of division and addition to get the final sum, so it changes according to the welfare of the state, and I'm wondering if that's the case in America as well. if so, then i guess the formula could be changed perhaps, so that more funding can go to more important aspects rather than to government officials who don't necessarily need the money. i mean, if each government employee can save on one meal, I think a large sum can then be directed to a more important aspect of society like education.

As for education, I think that's quite important in america, because from what I heard, American kids aren't really exposed to much of the rest of the world. When some of my friends went to America on a school trip, they thought Singapore was a third world country, and were surprised that we could actually afford holidays... and knew Justin Bieber...? I think education is important, and that the kids need exposure to more of the world. If they think Singapore, one of the most economically diverse countries, and a major oil exporter is a third world country, something is wrong there... Besides, greater education and exposure allows better understanding between cultures and better racial tolerance in my opinion, so this makes for a better social situation in america as a whole, and less cases of racism and the like.

My knowledge on the issue is very limited, so i'm just expressing a few views that may or may not be true. Just what I'm thinking on the issue, and er... no offence to any Americans, though I don't think what I said was offensive (it wasn't meant to be either!)
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: Stardale on October 06, 2010, 06:22:14 AM
@Sizzle:
I strongly disagree with abolishing the DoE. Well, for one, they function as the ones that regulate the country's energy resources. You can't necessarily abolish the department, but you can revamp the whole department's structure.

Government employees? Not all government employees have such luxurious lives. Maybe you mean those in the senate, the congress, and those in high positions? After all, they are the ones that benefit much.

I'm with you on the Unemployment Benefits, though. Unemployed should seek help from various government agencies so that they would be able to find a job. At the same time, the government should open new jobs that has quite a fair salary first.

Well, that's actually the summary of what I think. It's not even complete. (My aunt in Colombus, OH told me to limit what I think to these for some reason.)


EDIT: Oh, this popped out of my mind just now. I think the citizens should stop using credit cards for wasteful purposes.
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: silversun on December 03, 2010, 12:12:34 AM
I know Iraqis and other Middle Eastern people personally, trust me, none of them want Americans over there. Americans simply like world domination, being international policemen.

I agree it's not about money, it's about mentality when it comes to education. While I'd like computers that weren't made 55674 years ago, and teachers definetly deserve more pay, education has become more rote memorization of dry text than the learning of skills and concepts and how to apply them to the real world.

As to the sales tax thing... Well, unfair distribution of wealth is one of the reasons I think the theory of communism isn't so bad.

Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: Just Lance on December 03, 2010, 10:32:48 AM
Do you know what was real purpose of Iraque and Afganistan invasions?
Money. Bloddy money for weapon manufactures.
This whole claustrophobic warfare in middle-east was started because nobody wanted weaponry in time of peace.
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: silversun on December 03, 2010, 11:49:03 AM
I don't think weapon manufacturers need any more money...

http://www.globalissues.org/article/75/world-military-spending (http://www.globalissues.org/article/75/world-military-spending)

1.5 trillion. If that money went towards energy saving, world poverty, disease control...

The Iraqi and Afghanistan conflicts cost 3 trillion dollars. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008030702846.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008030702846.html)  I don't see any gain to us as taxpayers, and I'd be surprised to learn they appreciate us occupying their country.
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: Just Lance on December 03, 2010, 11:53:27 AM
The jey word isn't need. It's want and can do.
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: silversun on December 03, 2010, 11:57:28 AM
Unfortunately...

Although most views I've heard on the subjects seem to be either 1) try to take over oil-rich area or 2) prevent an Islamic Empire.
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: Just Lance on December 03, 2010, 12:07:15 PM
1st:Agree
2nd: I don't see any thread in Islamic Empire.
Don't we have here something like Christian empire allready? ;)
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: silversun on December 03, 2010, 12:15:10 PM
Well, considering Islam has over 1.6 billion adherents, if they united they'd be a pretty strong enemy to have. I think America would have been smarter to encourage such a unity, and be careful to maintain good relations with that union. That'd be a considerable amount of the world united, and a major step to a dream of a world where we can not only coexist peaceably but exchange ideas and culture. Unfortunately, the government seemed to prefer the let's-destroy-them-completely approach.
Yeah, idk.
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: Just Lance on December 03, 2010, 01:16:05 PM
First Indians now Islamic people... When they start clearing Europe?
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: silversun on December 03, 2010, 01:21:20 PM
They like Europe...it'll be Asia next. China and India with their huge populations- and China's growing economic power- makes it an enemy.
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: Merlandese on December 03, 2010, 01:28:37 PM
And once we find that pesky Atlantis, BOOM! ...Mwahaha! *Evil and smug American smile*
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: silversun on December 03, 2010, 01:43:50 PM
D: No! I love Atlantis...it'll be Hogwarts next!

....on second thought, go right ahead.

*hides from rabid HP fans*
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: Just Lance on December 03, 2010, 01:59:58 PM
Carefully. Or they will take Daidalos-class battle cruisers with Atlantis and bombard us fromorbit. Never forget that when US find a piece of new techn ology they just give it an Army, Navy or USAF label  and claim to be theirs.

... But now guys. This is in Debates/Serious Discussions thread so let's make it cool.
Title: Re: How can America repair itself?
Post by: silversun on December 03, 2010, 02:06:44 PM
...Okay.

Spoiler: show
But don't say I didn't warn you when they come to take over Prion and Aeria!