Author Topic: Why didn't River just tell Johnny?  (Read 11561 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

darth nilhilus

  • Tier 2
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Why didn't River just tell Johnny?
« on: August 26, 2012, 08:00:28 PM »
Hello, I've just finished To the Moon for the first time, and it was an amazing experience, however there is one question that has been nagging at me since I finished: why didn't River just flat out remind Johnny of their first meeting?

Now, I know River suffers from a form of autism, which causes her to be a lot less direct to other people, but wouldn't she have realized after a few non-head on attempts at reminding him that this wouldn't work? Even if River does have trouble being direct with people, couldn't she logically conclude after a few tries (especially after the fiasco with the hackey sack) that the only way for Johnny to even possibly remember would be for her to just tell him? River may have autism, but it clearly doesn't decrease her intelligence, so I don't understand how she did not realize this.

Just Lance

  • 狼と冒険家
  • *
  • Tier 7
  • **
  • Posts: 18635
  • Gender: Male
  • Commodore of Freebirdia Orbital Defense Fleet
  • Current Mood: perverse perverse
Re: Why didn't River just tell Johnny?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2012, 12:19:05 AM »
I'd suggest that you read something about Asperger syndrome first. That should shed more light on that.
Quote
"God, it's so hard to be a smartass nowadays." Dr. Neil Watts (To the Moon)

Tumbles

  • 海が私の心です。
  • *
  • Tier 7
  • **
  • Posts: 3953
  • Gender: Male
  • I am who I am, but not yet.
    • Big Palooka
  • Current Mood: cheerful cheerful
Re: Why didn't River just tell Johnny?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2012, 03:25:59 AM »
Ahh, it's not that simple, I'm afraid. :reivsweat: And it's not a question of intelligence either.

People with Asperger syndrome see the world in a different way to the rest of us. What may seem simple to you may not make sense at all to them, and vice-versa. Simply telling Johnny what happened just isn't an option for River. That's not the way her brain works. :seraismile: So she has to take other outlets to let him know. Like... the rabbits. :vikonsmile:

I hope that helped a little, but it's definitely worth reading up on.

Spoiler: show


                                         

~

Fran

  • Tier 2
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Gender: Female
  • Current Mood: stressed stressed
Re: Why didn't River just tell Johnny?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2012, 08:08:04 PM »
If only it were that simple...I don't have Asperger's, but I do have PDDNOS. It's just another type of autism. Let's see if I can explain a bit.

One of the biggest problems for autistics in general is communication. Weather it be by speech, non-verbal, tone, or social cues...something just doesn't click. Aspergers is known to be a mild form of autism so many (especially girls) aren't diagnosed until later in life. Most are just considered aloof, odd, and having quirks. These differences, can either make or break a person.

 First and foremost, it has NOTHING to do with intelligence level. Though some cases of autism do have some sort of mental retardation, it is a different diagnosis entirely. Autism is a social disorder. This means that people with the diagnosis have trouble with speech, communication, social cues, while also connecting and understanding their environment. Autism Spectrum Disorder can either extremely mild to extremely severe.  River seems to have a more severe form of Asperger's. The only major difference beween those diagnosed with Asperger's instead of autism per se, is people with Asperger's can speak and were born with little to no speech delay. They also tend to be more social and, therefore more socially awkward, then straight up autistics who are more content to be by themselves. In any case...

What River did was very natural. I was talking to my friend just today and he asked me if what I would have done if he would have lost his memory in his recent car accident. I told him I would probably act like River and give him hints about our relationship and past experiences. Why not simply talk about it? The question I ask is...how? What words should you use? What tone of voice? How could he NOT remember? What could I possibly do to help him? Even people with Asperger's have a very hard time with speech. Though they can physically speak, actually doing it is a different issue. I know it is a HUGE problem of mine. Most of the time I type or sign instead of use words. Why? It's so stressful and scary. How do I use my words to make you understand? What happens if it's the wrong words? What happens if it's in the wrong tone and I offend you somehow? What if you don't understand what I mean? How do I elaborate on what I just said? Communication, and just speech in general, is so difficult. Every time I open my mouth I'm afraid. There are plenty of times I'll open my mouth just for nothing to come out. It's an on going struggle that will never end.

It pains me to think about how River must have felt. She so desperately wanted to tell John about their "true" first memory, but didn't have the words. Instead, she folded rabbit after rabbit and even going so far as cutting her own hair to make her look like she did that night. She must have felt so trapped. So many people feel sorry that John didn't get River's message. I get that, but...I know what it's like being trapped in your own body. Autistics aren't stupid. They can comprehend just like you can, but...expressing everything to other people can be a challenge. To have the words in your head and yet for them not to be able to come out...to so badly want to express your feelings in a way you hope your husband would understand...to try so hard to communicate in the only way you know how without getting any results...how painful. Every time River would say "And?" "What else?" to John I nearly cried. I've played this game SO MANY TIMES with my family and friends. It's giving them a clue to what is going on in your head that you can't physically verbalize. When other's don't get it you just want to cry because you wish so badly that you could just speak like everyone else.

This is just my own observation however. As Isabelle said, everyone with the condition is different. Just as everyone is an individual, everyone is effected with autism differently. I'll be more than happy to talk to anyone who wishes to know more or has questions. Obviously, this topic is very dear to my heart. I hope this helps you understand a bit better and that this isn't just some meaningless drabble...

FirmlyGroundedAspie

  • Tier 2
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Why didn't River just tell Johnny?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2012, 10:47:14 AM »
What Fran said. But there is also a second possibility, that River tried to tell John, and he told her off, leading to the obsessive rabbit-making. Remember, we are only seeing salient memories of Johnny's, those for which mementos exist. Logically, this would have occurred perhaps the night before she started making rabbits (and getting her hair cut), but it would not be linked to a memento, because in John's mind, the event was insignificant.

On the other hand, it has bothered me that nobody knew about the beta-blockers. Things might have turned out better for John and River if they had been told.

Dr. Zooks McCoy

  • Tier 7
  • *
  • Posts: 1372
  • Gender: Female
  • Dr. Rodney McKay's female sidekick
    • Soundcloud
  • Current Mood: creative creative
Re: Why didn't River just tell Johnny?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2012, 11:57:19 AM »
But there is also a second possibility, that River tried to tell John, and he told her off, leading to the obsessive rabbit-making.

No... that doesn't fit Johnny's character. :salbrow:

Sanicgottafeelfast

  • Tier 3
  • *
  • Posts: 81
  • Gender: Male
  • Current Mood: happy happy
Re: Why didn't River just tell Johnny?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2012, 03:55:57 PM »
But there is also a second possibility, that River tried to tell John, and he told her off, leading to the obsessive rabbit-making.

No... that doesn't fit Johnny's character. :salbrow:
....At least what we saw of Johnny's charecter......but you're right from what we saw johnny was a kind understanding fellow. And it must have been frustrating for him to know that those rabbits meant something to River but was unable to get at what. I swear this game gets more deep then the last time I played it xD :3
"I'm the sanest person I know"

Thunderbird

  • 雷の鳥
  • *
  • Tier 7
  • **
  • Posts: 1449
  • Gender: Male
  • Flame Haze
  • Current Mood: happy happy
Re: Why didn't River just tell Johnny?
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2012, 12:25:43 PM »
@Fran: Wow that was deep. It's good to hear that River's character is so spot on that you can let your friends/family understand your condition. I think that's a big success, a lot of e.g. books that hit the mark about serious matters are boring to read.
Even if you are nothing more than a drop in a bucket...
Every drop leaves ripples.

Fran

  • Tier 2
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Gender: Female
  • Current Mood: stressed stressed
Re: Why didn't River just tell Johnny?
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2012, 10:33:49 PM »
@Fran: Wow that was deep. It's good to hear that River's character is so spot on that you can let your friends/family understand your condition. I think that's a big success, a lot of e.g. books that hit the mark about serious matters are boring to read.

Haha, sorry if that was either too much or to melancholy. I was simply giving information that many say they know, but yet don't fully understand their implications.

I too am happy that I have a way to express what it is like living with autism without having to give people a book. though books do give useful information, they usually are very bland and people loose interest quickly. It's wonderful that a game was created with an accurate portrayal of autism and not having us look insane or inhuman. I was honourd to have such a character be so relatable to me.

Eve J

  • Tier 2
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Gender: Female
  • Current Mood: alright alright
Re: Why didn't River just tell Johnny?
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2012, 03:57:58 AM »
If only it were that simple...I don't have Asperger's, but I do have PDDNOS. It's just another type of autism. Let's see if I can explain a bit.

One of the biggest problems for autistics in general is communication. Weather it be by speech, non-verbal, tone, or social cues...something just doesn't click. Aspergers is known to be a mild form of autism so many (especially girls) aren't diagnosed until later in life. Most are just considered aloof, odd, and having quirks. These differences, can either make or break a person.

 First and foremost, it has NOTHING to do with intelligence level. Though some cases of autism do have some sort of mental retardation, it is a different diagnosis entirely. Autism is a social disorder. This means that people with the diagnosis have trouble with speech, communication, social cues, while also connecting and understanding their environment. Autism Spectrum Disorder can either extremely mild to extremely severe.  River seems to have a more severe form of Asperger's. The only major difference beween those diagnosed with Asperger's instead of autism per se, is people with Asperger's can speak and were born with little to no speech delay. They also tend to be more social and, therefore more socially awkward, then straight up autistics who are more content to be by themselves. In any case...

What River did was very natural. I was talking to my friend just today and he asked me if what I would have done if he would have lost his memory in his recent car accident. I told him I would probably act like River and give him hints about our relationship and past experiences. Why not simply talk about it? The question I ask is...how? What words should you use? What tone of voice? How could he NOT remember? What could I possibly do to help him? Even people with Asperger's have a very hard time with speech. Though they can physically speak, actually doing it is a different issue. I know it is a HUGE problem of mine. Most of the time I type or sign instead of use words. Why? It's so stressful and scary. How do I use my words to make you understand? What happens if it's the wrong words? What happens if it's in the wrong tone and I offend you somehow? What if you don't understand what I mean? How do I elaborate on what I just said? Communication, and just speech in general, is so difficult. Every time I open my mouth I'm afraid. There are plenty of times I'll open my mouth just for nothing to come out. It's an on going struggle that will never end.

It pains me to think about how River must have felt. She so desperately wanted to tell John about their "true" first memory, but didn't have the words. Instead, she folded rabbit after rabbit and even going so far as cutting her own hair to make her look like she did that night. She must have felt so trapped. So many people feel sorry that John didn't get River's message. I get that, but...I know what it's like being trapped in your own body. Autistics aren't stupid. They can comprehend just like you can, but...expressing everything to other people can be a challenge. To have the words in your head and yet for them not to be able to come out...to so badly want to express your feelings in a way you hope your husband would understand...to try so hard to communicate in the only way you know how without getting any results...how painful. Every time River would say "And?" "What else?" to John I nearly cried. I've played this game SO MANY TIMES with my family and friends. It's giving them a clue to what is going on in your head that you can't physically verbalize. When other's don't get it you just want to cry because you wish so badly that you could just speak like everyone else.

This is just my own observation however. As Isabelle said, everyone with the condition is different. Just as everyone is an individual, everyone is effected with autism differently. I'll be more than happy to talk to anyone who wishes to know more or has questions. Obviously, this topic is very dear to my heart. I hope this helps you understand a bit better and that this isn't just some meaningless drabble...



1. Do you find it easier to talk about your condition in type, to people you don't know, to people who won't affect what's going on around you?

2. So there IS a mild form of Asperger's Syndrome?

3. How did you get diagnosed for PDDNOS? At what age?

Tumbles

  • 海が私の心です。
  • *
  • Tier 7
  • **
  • Posts: 3953
  • Gender: Male
  • I am who I am, but not yet.
    • Big Palooka
  • Current Mood: cheerful cheerful
Re: Why didn't River just tell Johnny?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 06:48:39 AM »

2. So there IS a mild form of Asperger's Syndrome?


PDDNOS is a type of Autism that doesn't exactly fit the criteria of the other types. I guess that's why it's known as "atypical autism".

Spoiler: show


                                         

~

FirmlyGroundedAspie

  • Tier 2
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Why didn't River just tell Johnny?
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2012, 01:34:50 PM »
@Eve J: Tumbles already said it, but it is worth repeating. PDD-NOS is not necessarily mild. It may be milder in some areas, more severe in others. There was this girl at my school who was perhaps more sociable than myself, but who had a range of other problems. I recently learned she was PDD-NOS - but I could swear she was on the whole more autistic than me.

Fran

  • Tier 2
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Gender: Female
  • Current Mood: stressed stressed
Re: Why didn't River just tell Johnny?
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2013, 10:09:05 PM »
If only it were that simple...I don't have Asperger's, but I do have PDDNOS. It's just another type of autism. Let's see if I can explain a bit.

One of the biggest problems for autistics in general is communication. Weather it be by speech, non-verbal, tone, or social cues...something just doesn't click. Aspergers is known to be a mild form of autism so many (especially girls) aren't diagnosed until later in life. Most are just considered aloof, odd, and having quirks. These differences, can either make or break a person.

 First and foremost, it has NOTHING to do with intelligence level. Though some cases of autism do have some sort of mental retardation, it is a different diagnosis entirely. Autism is a social disorder. This means that people with the diagnosis have trouble with speech, communication, social cues, while also connecting and understanding their environment. Autism Spectrum Disorder can either extremely mild to extremely severe.  River seems to have a more severe form of Asperger's. The only major difference beween those diagnosed with Asperger's instead of autism per se, is people with Asperger's can speak and were born with little to no speech delay. They also tend to be more social and, therefore more socially awkward, then straight up autistics who are more content to be by themselves. In any case...

What River did was very natural. I was talking to my friend just today and he asked me if what I would have done if he would have lost his memory in his recent car accident. I told him I would probably act like River and give him hints about our relationship and past experiences. Why not simply talk about it? The question I ask is...how? What words should you use? What tone of voice? How could he NOT remember? What could I possibly do to help him? Even people with Asperger's have a very hard time with speech. Though they can physically speak, actually doing it is a different issue. I know it is a HUGE problem of mine. Most of the time I type or sign instead of use words. Why? It's so stressful and scary. How do I use my words to make you understand? What happens if it's the wrong words? What happens if it's in the wrong tone and I offend you somehow? What if you don't understand what I mean? How do I elaborate on what I just said? Communication, and just speech in general, is so difficult. Every time I open my mouth I'm afraid. There are plenty of times I'll open my mouth just for nothing to come out. It's an on going struggle that will never end.

It pains me to think about how River must have felt. She so desperately wanted to tell John about their "true" first memory, but didn't have the words. Instead, she folded rabbit after rabbit and even going so far as cutting her own hair to make her look like she did that night. She must have felt so trapped. So many people feel sorry that John didn't get River's message. I get that, but...I know what it's like being trapped in your own body. Autistics aren't stupid. They can comprehend just like you can, but...expressing everything to other people can be a challenge. To have the words in your head and yet for them not to be able to come out...to so badly want to express your feelings in a way you hope your husband would understand...to try so hard to communicate in the only way you know how without getting any results...how painful. Every time River would say "And?" "What else?" to John I nearly cried. I've played this game SO MANY TIMES with my family and friends. It's giving them a clue to what is going on in your head that you can't physically verbalize. When other's don't get it you just want to cry because you wish so badly that you could just speak like everyone else.

This is just my own observation however. As Isabelle said, everyone with the condition is different. Just as everyone is an individual, everyone is effected with autism differently. I'll be more than happy to talk to anyone who wishes to know more or has questions. Obviously, this topic is very dear to my heart. I hope this helps you understand a bit better and that this isn't just some meaningless drabble...



1. Do you find it easier to talk about your condition in type, to people you don't know, to people who won't affect what's going on around you?

2. So there IS a mild form of Asperger's Syndrome?

3. How did you get diagnosed for PDDNOS? At what age?

1. I just tell people it if it is reverent of if I am struggling with something enough to have it be the reason. Then I might mention it to help explain why and where I am having difficulty.

2. Well, autism is a spectrum disorder so there are very mild cases to very severe cases. Each type of autism is know to be within a certain part of the spectrum, but even that can fluctuate.

3. Actually, I was only diagnosed in june. My entire life I have had one diagnosis after another. It has been one crasy and painful road to get where I am today, but now that I know I am a lot more happier with who I am. I no longer have to hate myself for being "different" because I now know there is a reason and that there are others like me. That is a comforting thought.

Archeus9

  • Tier 2
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Gender: Male
  • Enjoy life with all of your being
  • Current Mood: thoughtful thoughtful
Re: Why didn't River just tell Johnny?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2013, 12:38:02 PM »
Because it's hard. I understand how River feels. Trying to talk to people about things like that, ---asking---  is so exhausting it seems impossible. Even trying to ask my brother to play this game is ripping me apart. A few days ago he just suddenly said, "Hey, Slender is boring me, let's play that game you got. The moon game." I was thrilled. But we didn't finish the game. He said, "We'll play more tomorrow." But he didn't keep that little promise. I've spent days trying to ask him if he wants to play more, but the words won't let themselves come out. I've been hanging around the laptop, playing the games that he likes so he can return the favour, looking at him and trying to telepathically ask him to complete the game, but he's just not getting it. I know it sounds like a minor thing to fuss about and even I've forgotten why it's so important that he plays this game. ...Ah, frick. This is just silly now. I'm just copying exactly what River did. :( I'm such a loser.... Platypus fever, I guess. :/ I really don't know anymore. AND NOW I HAVE GONE OFF TOPIC. I'm such a rambler, me. AND I HAVEN'T STOPPED.

---  :platquack:

Wasn't rambling to me :) Hmmm...  I understand its hard for you to express yourself through speech. Would it be the same thing just to pull him to the computer and show him this post you just made? Or would that be hard as well?  Might show him how much it means to you :)
"The acquisition of knowledge  is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being truly known." - Leo Da Vinci

Archeus9

  • Tier 2
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Gender: Male
  • Enjoy life with all of your being
  • Current Mood: thoughtful thoughtful
Re: Why didn't River just tell Johnny?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2013, 12:41:53 PM »
1. I just tell people it if it is reverent of if I am struggling with something enough to have it be the reason. Then I might mention it to help explain why and where I am having difficulty.

2. Well, autism is a spectrum disorder so there are very mild cases to very severe cases. Each type of autism is know to be within a certain part of the spectrum, but even that can fluctuate.

3. Actually, I was only diagnosed in june. My entire life I have had one diagnosis after another. It has been one crasy and painful road to get where I am today, but now that I know I am a lot more happier with who I am. I no longer have to hate myself for being "different" because I now know there is a reason and that there are others like me. That is a comforting thought.

There are also people that care :) I wish i could meet you or others like you, I definitively wouldn't mind being friends. By the way, thank you to you and Eve for posting, it REALLY has put a light on this subject.
"The acquisition of knowledge  is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being truly known." - Leo Da Vinci

 


* Recent Media

x-mas art

Views: 530
Posted by: cydriex
in: Freebird Games - Fan Works
For River

Views: 826
Posted by: Animefox
in: To the Moon